Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

PASSHE Institutions Merging

Collapse

Support The Site!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • complaint_hopeful
    replied
    Originally posted by ironmaniup View Post

    At the least it will be delayed for a year. With faculty dragging their feet, and with all the elbowing by the various universities, there is no way this happened by fall. In fact, current students are promised the degree they signed up for, based on the classes that are available now.

    The problem is, there is another huge demographic drop off coming in 2025, and the weaker institution cannot survive without more subsidy than the state is currently willing to provide.
    I feel like I'd feel MUCH better about having a 2023 start than an August 2022 one. There is so much that needs done.

    Leave a comment:


  • ironmaniup
    replied
    Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View Post

    What are the odds this doesn't get the go ahead at this point though? The PASSHE Board is who approves it. There will be a 60 day comment period where I'd imagine there will be A LOT of opposition, but ultimately it goes forward.

    I guess it really depends on how bleak the situation really is. Lock Haven for instance says they have $45 million in reserves. IF that money was theirs and theirs alone, they could likely lose enrollment for several plus more years and survive.

    The Chancellor and PASSHE see the system collapsing in a short period of time going at the current trend.

    And maybe both are right. Maybe Lock Haven would be ok, but a bunch of other schools fail? The Chancellor is working to save ALL schools. Not just 1.

    I tend to think his view is highly correct. Although, in his town halls and PR appearances he's talking about how he's seeing amazing work in these Integrations. Everything I hear is there is confusion and lack of communication and decisions. Unless the consultants built this thing heavily and just haven't released the info yet...
    At the least it will be delayed for a year. With faculty dragging their feet, and with all the elbowing by the various universities, there is no way this happened by fall. In fact, current students are promised the degree they signed up for, based on the classes that are available now.

    The problem is, there is another huge demographic drop off coming in 2025, and the weaker institution cannot survive without more subsidy than the state is currently willing to provide.

    Leave a comment:


  • complaint_hopeful
    replied
    Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

    All of the uncertainty and confusion has to hurt and this is not a good time for more hurt.
    Yeah - It's terrible. And some employees are leaving too...and it's usually the better ones that leave.

    Interestingly, when the Chancellor comes to a campus or speaks to a campus...the people present wildly optimistic views to him of his plan I've noticed. It's interesting. Like the Students talk about how great this is.

    I don't know that he gets the actual view that the average person has. I hope he realizes that people will give him biased takes.

    Leave a comment:


  • iupgroundhog
    replied
    Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View Post
    I think there's a lot of bad press coming from the Integration. I get what the Chancellor is doing...He's trying to paint the alternatives as bad.

    But, what he's doing is painting in the mind of prospective students that the system might collapse while they are here.

    This whole process is brutal.
    All of the uncertainty and confusion has to hurt and this is not a good time for more hurt.

    Leave a comment:


  • complaint_hopeful
    replied
    I think there's a lot of bad press coming from the Integration. I get what the Chancellor is doing...He's trying to paint the alternatives as bad.

    But, what he's doing is painting in the mind of prospective students that the system might collapse while they are here.

    This whole process is brutal.

    Leave a comment:


  • complaint_hopeful
    replied
    Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

    No. That's not the way it worked pre-PASSHE and not the way it would work post-PASSHE. Instead, each school would negotiate with the state independently. Sounds inefficient but it would allow each school to find their level. The other big word Greenstein introduced was "cross-subsidization." Perhaps people have never heard that big word but many know what it means. Why should stronger institutions subsidize weaker ones? At this point, I think that question deserves consideration.
    Definately. Well in your scenario...I think I'd favor dissolution too. The schools ultimately pay for PASSHE and the salaries...and I don't know that the value or governance is there. Now, Greenstein is trying to fix that...but he's 1 person trying to fix 30 years of inefficiency. Only so much he can do. He's certainly trying.

    Leave a comment:


  • iupgroundhog
    replied
    Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View Post

    Well...IF the State funding went to 0...likely no school survives. So I think that's the critical detail. Like they dissolve PASSHE and the state funding goes away.
    No. That's not the way it worked pre-PASSHE and not the way it would work post-PASSHE. Instead, each school would negotiate with the state independently. Sounds inefficient but it would allow each school to find their level. The other big word Greenstein introduced was "cross-subsidization." Perhaps people have never heard that big word but many know what it means. Why should stronger institutions subsidize weaker ones? At this point, I think that question deserves consideration.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fightingscot82
    replied
    Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    I think the biggest story is that the concept of "dissolution" has been introduced. Revert back to the way things were pre-PASSHE.

    The state senator from Indiana volunteered that he would sponsor that bill. It would be every school for themselves. Senator Pittman described how the "cross-subsidization" has hurt IUP. He's right. If dissolving PASSHE is an option, I am all for it.

    dissolution - Legal Definition. n. The termination, cessation, or winding up of a legal entity such as a corporation or partnership; the consensual or judicially ordered undoing of a contract by placing the parties back into the positions they held before entering into it; the termination of a marriage.
    Abso-frickin-lutely. Yeah all 14 schools were headed in different directions pre-PASSHE but now they're all Stepford McState Universities and have lost a lot of autonomy in determining their direction. The system-ness (of which the faculty CBA is a symptom) boggs down every school. Greenstein is right that the system needs to act more like a system - but behind the scenes. Greenstein directed a digital consolidation of Cal system libraries. That's a great idea for PASSHE. Shared operational services are another. There's probably cost savings in the long term for both of those. But let Edinboro direct its course for NWPA the same as Lock Haven should do best for NCPA. Back in the late 70s, Edinboro saw a need for better medical and legal education in NWPA. Their application for a state grant nursing hub was given to Gannon and its applications for law and medical schools as well as an MBA were all denied by the state. Those were big strategic opportunities for its immediate region. PASSHE red tape prevents that kind of thing now because of IUP/WCU supremacy.

    While we're all for getting rid of the "system" I think he was talking about closing everyone. That would be catastrophic.
    Last edited by Fightingscot82; 03-19-2021, 09:40 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • complaint_hopeful
    replied
    Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

    The Clarion/Edinboro president characterized it as Cal and Clarion proactively advocating for Edinboro to join them since their finances, enrollment, and academic offerings overlap well. I don't know what to believe at this point.
    Yeah. A lot of the public presentation puts nice wrapping paper and a bow on this all.

    Supposedly within the next couple weeks some of the actual details are going to trickle out about how this actually works.

    Leave a comment:


  • complaint_hopeful
    replied
    Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

    The town/gown relationship is different in all of these communities. As far as I can recall from the one time I passed through Edinboro, PA there is not much of a community surrounding EUP. In contrast, LHU, while it has always been small, is in many ways the lifeblood of the community. The way the plan is structured portends a devastating economic hit to the community because LH stands to lose the most under the current plan.

    At this point, he should allow LHU to withdraw from the triad and pull in another school, e.g. ESU, Ship, or Kutztown. See how they like being the sacrificial lamb.
    I think the Chancellor's main point on the dissolution of PASSHE was that: IF schools think they have the leverage to fight this...they don't. It's either Integrate or go out of business.

    Leave a comment:


  • complaint_hopeful
    replied
    Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    I think the biggest story is that the concept of "dissolution" has been introduced. Revert back to the way things were pre-PASSHE.

    The state senator from Indiana volunteered that he would sponsor that bill. It would be every school for themselves. Senator Pittman described how the "cross-subsidization" has hurt IUP. He's right. If dissolving PASSHE is an option, I am all for it.

    dissolution - Legal Definition. n. The termination, cessation, or winding up of a legal entity such as a corporation or partnership; the consensual or judicially ordered undoing of a contract by placing the parties back into the positions they held before entering into it; the termination of a marriage.
    Well...IF the State funding went to 0...likely no school survives. So I think that's the critical detail. Like they dissolve PASSHE and the state funding goes away.

    I don't know. IUP would have probably benefitted if it happened years ago. Now, I don't know. They've been losing enrollment too.

    Interestingly, PASSHE has A LOT of high paid employees. And they're just now starting to provide a lot of value in things like procurement, etc. Actually, for a lot of years...it was kind of unclear what value they provided. That seems to be changing.

    Leave a comment:


  • iupgroundhog
    replied
    Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

    I guess I should say public resistance. Lock Haven has been externally vocal. Edinboro folks didn't like the idea and Slippery Rock took their case to the Chancellor. They didn't do it in the press or hold events.
    The town/gown relationship is different in all of these communities. As far as I can recall from the one time I passed through Edinboro, PA there is not much of a community surrounding EUP. In contrast, LHU, while it has always been small, is in many ways the lifeblood of the community. The way the plan is structured portends a devastating economic hit to the community because LH stands to lose the most under the current plan.

    At this point, he should allow LHU to withdraw from the triad and pull in another school, e.g. ESU, Ship, or Kutztown. See how they like being the sacrificial lamb.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fightingscot82
    replied
    Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View Post

    Interestingly, on the West Triad, Greenstein recently said that when they did a review of the finances...they decided to add Edinboro into it because Cal and Clarion needed 'more mass'. First, I heard of that.

    Also, he said that the input from the teams is critical and will be followed. He said, going in he kind of thought that some sports would be losing money and get cut. But, after analysis, they determined that they weren't and decided to keep them. He used this as an example of following the data and input from the groups.
    The Clarion/Edinboro president characterized it as Cal and Clarion proactively advocating for Edinboro to join them since their finances, enrollment, and academic offerings overlap well. I don't know what to believe at this point.

    Leave a comment:


  • complaint_hopeful
    replied
    Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

    That is untrue. In his initial rollout of the plan for the West there was so much resistance that, according to you, Edinboro did not want to go along with the plan for fear of being subservient to Slippery Rock, and Slippery Rock did not want to go along with the plan unless the other campuses were 2nd tier under SRU direction. Confronted with that resistance it's clear that Greenstein attempted to follow the path of least resistance which he thought was adding Bloom into a Northeast triad. Mainly due to the size difference between LH and Bloom his plan is unfairly detrimental to LHU and the LH community. That's why there is the resistance.
    Interestingly, on the West Triad, Greenstein recently said that when they did a review of the finances...they decided to add Edinboro into it because Cal and Clarion needed 'more mass'. First, I heard of that.

    Also, he said that the input from the teams is critical and will be followed. He said, going in he kind of thought that some sports would be losing money and get cut. But, after analysis, they determined that they weren't and decided to keep them. He used this as an example of following the data and input from the groups.

    re: Resistance - I think there is a lot. It's just not public. Like probably none of the schools are 100% on board with this. They say the right things in public, but I think there is skepticism.
    Last edited by complaint_hopeful; 03-19-2021, 09:09 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fightingscot82
    replied
    Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

    That is untrue. In his initial rollout of the plan for the West there was so much resistance that, according to you, Edinboro did not want to go along with the plan for fear of being subservient to Slippery Rock, and Slippery Rock did not want to go along with the plan unless the other campuses were 2nd tier under SRU direction. Confronted with that resistance it's clear that Greenstein attempted to follow the path of least resistance which he thought was adding Bloom into a Northeast triad. Mainly due to the size difference between LH and Bloom his plan is unfairly detrimental to LHU and the LH community. That's why there is the resistance.
    I guess I should say public resistance. Lock Haven has been externally vocal. Edinboro folks didn't like the idea and Slippery Rock took their case to the Chancellor. They didn't do it in the press or hold events.

    Leave a comment:

Ad3

Collapse
Working...
X