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  • iupgroundhog
    replied
    Originally posted by Bart View Post

    No question people make choices that contravene their own self-interests, and that the government should invest in job creation, infrastructure, education, and the common good.

    Some assume rural folks mean white. Blacks and Hispanics are moving into coal regions from urban areas to find safety, to escape traumas of inner city poverty and crime, attain better-paying, manual labor jobs, and find housing they can afford. They still believe in a better life for their children.

    Even as they are divided by racism, sexism, and xenophobia, the working class agree that you can't raise a family on nine bucks an hour. They support policies that expand opportunities for health care, education, fair pay, and good jobs. They blame companies and institutions that support a biased criminal justice system, lack of employer loyalty, doctors and pharmaceutical companies that profit from addiction, and the for profit colleges that peddle useless degrees. They are not your enemy, just try to understand their life experiences that created their worldview.
    Too many issues in play here to know where to start. But getting back to the transportation situation, Pennsylvania is a mess. There's really not enough public money to maintain the entire state. This is why the folks along the "I-80 corridor" were wrong to put up such a strong resistance to tolling the interstate. PA needs that money and most of it would come from out-of-state users. The arguments those rural legislators put forth were nothing short of ridiculous.

    The tolls paid on the turnpike help support PennDOT across the state. 40% of the turnpike's payment to PennDOT is directed to SEPTA. So, the tolls do come back to Philly but sure would help if I-80 was tolled.

    As for who resents who more, rural PA has a particular disdain for the Philly area. This is not a secret.

    When you refer to the coal region as synonymous with rural PA, it is not. It is just one piece of it. I believe a lot of those mostly Hispanics are coming into communities in the coal region to escape the social maladies of Reading and Allentown. A generation ago they came from metro NY and the social ills followed them (or preceded them). But it's not a mass migration. Rural PA is white. Will they ever come to terms that it is Dems who have their back and not Republicans?
    Last edited by iupgroundhog; 02-28-2021, 09:24 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bart
    replied
    No question people make choices that contravene their own self-interests, and that the government should invest in job creation, infrastructure, education, and the common good.

    Some assume rural folks mean white. Blacks and Hispanics are moving into coal regions from urban areas to find safety, to escape traumas of inner city poverty and crime, attain better-paying, manual labor jobs, and find housing they can afford. They still believe in a better life for their children.

    Even as they are divided by racism, sexism, and xenophobia, the working class agree that you can't raise a family on nine bucks an hour. They support policies that expand opportunities for health care, education, fair pay, and good jobs. They blame companies and institutions that support a biased criminal justice system, lack of employer loyalty, doctors and pharmaceutical companies that profit from addiction, and the for profit colleges that peddle useless degrees. They are not your enemy, just try to understand their life experiences that created their worldview.

    Leave a comment:


  • IUPNation
    replied
    Originally posted by Bart View Post

    People want jobs, coal or otherwise, in a society that preaches one's fate is determined by one's efforts. They have to eat. The call for bringing back coal conjured up a feeling of rebellious determination, and a sense of pride when coal won wars and made a rural nation into a great power. Coal is finite, and Trump was just another politician duping workers like the coal companies who deserted mining communities when it was no longer profitable. Most of coal region people are disconnected from politics, because "politicians are selected, not elected." Self-preservation is the name of the game. I am all for taking money from the rich and giving it to the poor. Southeastern Pa has the money.

    Some are assigning moral worth to rural citizens, to make them feel inferior, excluded and demonized. Don't fall into that trap. And take a back road to Norristown.
    Last edited by IUPNation; 02-28-2021, 06:49 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bart
    replied
    People want jobs, coal or otherwise, in a society that preaches one's fate is determined by one's efforts. They have to eat. The call for bringing back coal conjured up a feeling of rebellious determination, and a sense of pride when coal won wars and made a rural nation into a great power. Coal is finite, and Trump was just another politician duping workers like the coal companies who deserted mining communities when it was no longer profitable. Most of coal region people are disconnected from politics, because "politicians are selected, not elected." Self-preservation is the name of the game. I am all for taking money from the rich and giving it to the poor. Southeastern Pa has the money.

    Some are assigning moral worth to rural citizens, to make them feel inferior, excluded and demonized. Don't fall into that trap. And take a back road to Norristown.

    Leave a comment:


  • IUPNation
    replied
    Originally posted by Bart View Post

    You probably can afford 4 bucks. Or take 322 to 95. I use to drive into Phila. on the West Chester Pike. If it makes you feel better, there are proposals to toll bridges on the interstates, which will cost most people 4 bucks round trip to work. Poverty, exploitation, and inequality run high in the Trump counties. Southeastern Pa benefited for years from the Philadelphia and Reading Coal Companies heating your homes and creating fortunes. They left the coal region with stripped land (Centralia), poisoned the air, and treated workers' bodies as cheap and disposable. As Billy Joel sang "But they've taken all the coal from the ground, And the union people crawled away." Now it is happening again with natural gas.

    As for the vaccine distribution, ask the democratic leaders. In my travels, I found the many rural folks don't want the vaccine. They don't trust politicians who never protected them before. They are alienated and cynical because of years of being hard hit, especially in coal country. They feel betrayed. I recall growing up watching miners go to bars after work to wash down the coal dust from their throats. Things haven't changed much in post-industrial working class life. Now people here turn to drugs and alcohol to wash away the pain. They deserve a break.
    Last edited by IUPNation; 02-28-2021, 09:03 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bart
    replied
    You probably can afford 4 bucks. Or take 322 to 95. I use to drive into Phila. on the West Chester Pike. If it makes you feel better, there are proposals to toll bridges on the interstates, which will cost most people 4 bucks round trip to work. Poverty, exploitation, and inequality run high in the Trump counties. Southeastern Pa benefited for years from the Philadelphia and Reading Coal Companies heating your homes and creating fortunes. They left the coal region with stripped land (Centralia), poisoned the air, and treated workers' bodies as cheap and disposable. As Billy Joel sang "But they've taken all the coal from the ground, And the union people crawled away." Now it is happening again with natural gas.

    As for the vaccine distribution, ask the democratic leaders. In my travels, I found the many rural folks don't want the vaccine. They don't trust politicians who never protected them before. They are alienated and cynical because of years of being hard hit, especially in coal country. They feel betrayed. I recall growing up watching miners go to bars after work to wash down the coal dust from their throats. Things haven't changed much in post-industrial working class life. Now people here turn to drugs and alcohol to wash away the pain. They deserve a break.

    Leave a comment:


  • IUPNation
    replied
    Originally posted by Bart View Post

    Trump supporters do use the turnpike too, especially upstate. And whatever happened to social democracy and income redistribution. As my friend Karl said "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs."

    Leave a comment:


  • Bart
    replied
    Trump supporters do use the turnpike too, especially upstate. And whatever happened to social democracy and income redistribution. As my friend Karl said "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs."

    Leave a comment:


  • complaint_hopeful
    replied
    Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

    Using your logic and last year's finances we'd be closing every school but West Chester.

    Also, what good will a homeless community do in Clarion County?
    Yep. So we know PA is 47th in state support. I'd like to see a study of if you took the top 30 or so state systems above us and reduced their funding level to 47th.

    I'd venture to say that some of them would be in financial trouble within 5 years too.

    Leave a comment:


  • IUPNation
    replied
    Originally posted by Sec10-A-14 View Post
    Close down money loosers and fill'em with homeless.
    Shift money from inner city public housing to pay for all these empty spaces.
    Last edited by IUPNation; 02-27-2021, 03:26 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fightingscot82
    replied
    Originally posted by Sec10-A-14 View Post
    Close down money loosers and fill'em with homeless.
    Shift money from inner city public housing to pay for all these empty spaces.
    Using your logic and last year's finances we'd be closing every school but West Chester.

    Also, what good will a homeless community do in Clarion County?

    Leave a comment:


  • Sec10-A-14
    replied
    Close down money loosers and fill'em with homeless.
    Shift money from inner city public housing to pay for all these empty spaces.

    Leave a comment:


  • complaint_hopeful
    replied
    https://www.insidehighered.com/news/...tems-can-often

    There are also political and economic reasons.

    Leave a comment:


  • iupgroundhog
    replied
    Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View Post

    The Chancellor has said its not an option.
    That is one scary statement right there. I guess you have to read it in context.

    Leave a comment:


  • complaint_hopeful
    replied
    Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

    Individuals and businesses just walk away from debt every day. I'm not so sure these schools couldn't do the same.

    I think the impact on the local economy would be the biggest barrier to closing up shop.
    The Chancellor has said its not an option. The state system is on the hook for the debt.

    If they could just close a campus and not owe the debt, I think they'd do it.

    And once you close 1, it likely hurts enrollment at others as people will think their school is next.

    Leave a comment:

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