Originally posted by complaint_hopeful
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Originally posted by iupgroundhog View PostIn my view. there are 2 things that are outrageous with the situation as it stands now.
#1 - There has been no NCAA decision regarding athletics and no indication there will be one before this can be stopped. Athletics is the key to the identity maintenance concept. In this important regard, Greenstein has lied to all constituencies.
#2 - There have been no economic impact studies done to shed light on the economic losses for the local communities and their broader regions.
I'm afraid this will go down as a terrible folly. Greenstein's folly.
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I think we will reach a point with this where the only recourse is legal. I have to think there will be lawsuits.
In particular, the 2 points I raised above. This was sold with the assumption that the NCAA would rule favorably. I think that was an empty promise.
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Originally posted by iupgroundhog View PostIn my view. there are 2 things that are outrageous with the situation as it stands now.
#1 - There has been no NCAA decision regarding athletics and no indication there will be one before this can be stopped. Athletics is the key to the identity maintenance concept. In this important regard, Greenstein has lied to all constituencies.
#2 - There have been no economic impact studies done to shed light on the economic losses for the local communities and their broader regions.
I'm afraid this will go down as a terrible folly. Greenstein's folly.
Your #2 is specifically called out in ACT 50:
(7) The financial impact on the surrounding community of the institution if action is taken by the board to exercise the board's powers under subsection (a.1).
2020 Act 50 - PA General Assembly (state.pa.us)
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Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
Yeah and to be honest, I'm surprised he didn't right away. Most other higher ed folks immediately question that duplication of services and the redundancy of the state funding when its already so low. I've posted it here before. Penn State and Pitt's branches (save PS Erie and PS Harrisburg) are dumpster fires of the bottom tier of PASSHE fashion. Most have fewer than 1,000 students and their ability to retain and graduate students is pathetic. They've also lost enrollment just as well because instead of being located in small towns like most of PASSHE, PS and Pitt branches are in old, crumbling manufacturing towns like Hazleton, Johnstown, McKeesport, Titusville, and Uniontown.
I'm fine with the funding Penn State gets - but they should receive greater scrutiny of how its used (outlet store campuses and subject to open records requests. People don't realize Pitt was a private university for 179 years until the state gave them a permanent bailout from bankruptcy. 81 years for Temple. Pitt has the fundraising capacity to have an endowment of $4.17 billion. I don't know how UPMC directly benefits the university financially beyond the medical school and medical profession programs because they too are not subject to open records requests. Also, we're still giving private Ivy League school Penn's school of veterinary medicine almost $32 million a year. Penn's fully private and has the fundraising capacity to have a nearly $15 billion endowment. Imagine that $32 million a year for need-based grants for students to attend PASSHE schools.
It's like building 10 gas stations in a small town and wondering why they fail.
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Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
Greenstein has pretty much always worked in higher ed but he has approached this job as a higher ed wonk. He's more about talking about the process than actually rolling up the sleeves and doing the work the right way. He's made the rounds on nearly every higher ed podcast and periodical leading up to this work. Now its getting exposed for it being more talk than detailed plan.
I do applaud the faculty union. I'm usually very critical of them. They've been pretty much on point for questioning this plan while also playing along with the formation of it. They also helped increase the number of public comment forums and have exposed how lopsided the commentary has been.
I just spent the weekend with a dozen college friends and it came up once. I was surprised at how many clearly understood the details of the situation: demographic loss, competing poorly in a stiff environment, poor funding/oversight, and lots of short-sighted mismanagement.
The disaster is that when this gets approved in July, these 6 schools are going to have a year to make this thing work. And a year is misleading, because for students to start in August...some items need to go live in January.
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In my view. there are 2 things that are outrageous with the situation as it stands now.
#1 - There has been no NCAA decision regarding athletics and no indication there will be one before this can be stopped. Athletics is the key to the identity maintenance concept. In this important regard, Greenstein has lied to all constituencies.
#2 - There have been no economic impact studies done to shed light on the economic losses for the local communities and their broader regions.
I'm afraid this will go down as a terrible folly. Greenstein's folly.
Leave a comment:
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Originally posted by ironmaniup View Post
Depends, I'm sure that there are certain circles where what he is doing is viewed as very innovative, and giving him the " can make difficult decisions" He's already positioned to blame other people for the system failure, and he is essentially laid out a path where schools can be closed down, without really saying they've been closed down. The beauty of his plan, from a political point of view, is he has set up a future where the challenged schools lose their identity, where the current students have a viable graduation path that is relatively easy, and there is a path that will allow useful resources (buildings and personnel ) to be transferred easily within a viable university. Its really pretty smart when you look at it from a political perspective. He knew that the schools themselves would not like it. But he's set up to make the people that oppose it too hard as backward thinking, and selfish. And next year he'll rip them with "right sizing", in a very ambiguous contractual environment.
I do applaud the faculty union. I'm usually very critical of them. They've been pretty much on point for questioning this plan while also playing along with the formation of it. They also helped increase the number of public comment forums and have exposed how lopsided the commentary has been.
I just spent the weekend with a dozen college friends and it came up once. I was surprised at how many clearly understood the details of the situation: demographic loss, competing poorly in a stiff environment, poor funding/oversight, and lots of short-sighted mismanagement.
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Originally posted by IUPNation View Post
Greenstein was stupid not to challenge the current PSSHE vs State Related way of funding by Harrisburg.
Does the Centre County Community College really need 300 million a year from Harrisburg? Can't they just use their BIG money to cover some costs?
Why does the Oakland Academy For Remedial Studies need 150 million a year from Harrisburg? You'd think the outrageous money UPMC charges it's patients would cover their costs.
Hell...Temple doesn't even need as much as they are getting.
Support the schools you own. Make the ones that you don't find other revenue streams....
I'm fine with the funding Penn State gets - but they should receive greater scrutiny of how its used (outlet store campuses and subject to open records requests. People don't realize Pitt was a private university for 179 years until the state gave them a permanent bailout from bankruptcy. 81 years for Temple. Pitt has the fundraising capacity to have an endowment of $4.17 billion. I don't know how UPMC directly benefits the university financially beyond the medical school and medical profession programs because they too are not subject to open records requests. Also, we're still giving private Ivy League school Penn's school of veterinary medicine almost $32 million a year. Penn's fully private and has the fundraising capacity to have a nearly $15 billion endowment. Imagine that $32 million a year for need-based grants for students to attend PASSHE schools.Last edited by Fightingscot82; 06-14-2021, 07:04 AM.
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Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View Post
At this point, I don't see what he can gain. Initially he came in and set expectations that he could innovate and make something new. Perhaps even implementing some Gates Foundation ideas. Now, they're just cutting. Not much innovation in this and the public seems largely against him.there arecertain
Some of the numbers in the presentation are wildly optimistic...and it still doesn't all make sense and isn't accepted.
What kind of stepping stone for his career will this stop be?
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Originally posted by IUPNation View Post
Greenstein was stupid not to challenge the current PSSHE vs State Related way of funding by Harrisburg.
Does the Centre County Community College really need 300 million a year from Harrisburg? Can't they just use their BIG money to cover some costs?
Why does the Oakland Academy For Remedial Studies need 150 million a year from Harrisburg? You'd think the outrageous money UPMC charges it's patients would cover their costs.
Hell...Temple doesn't even need as much as they are getting.
Support the schools you own. Make the ones that you don't find other revenue streams....
Leave a comment:
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Originally posted by ironmaniup View Post
It might, and it makes you wonder to what degree he is invested in the system, or whether its just a game to him
Some of the numbers in the presentation are wildly optimistic...and it still doesn't all make sense and isn't accepted.
What kind of stepping stone for his career will this stop be?
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Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View PostPart of me wonders if Greenstein was deluded enough to think the resistance would be smaller than the firestorm it is. He's likely used to getting his way. He also tends to be surrounded by people that I think are likely to agree with him.
But, his texting, eating, and not looking at the screen during the public comments was a really bad look. It might end up haunting him.
Does the Centre County Community College really need 300 million a year from Harrisburg? Can't they just use their BIG money to cover some costs?
Why does the Oakland Academy For Remedial Studies need 150 million a year from Harrisburg? You'd think the outrageous money UPMC charges it's patients would cover their costs.
Hell...Temple doesn't even need as much as they are getting.
Support the schools you own. Make the ones that you don't find other revenue streams....
Leave a comment:
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Originally posted by ironmaniup View Post
It might, and it makes you wonder to what degree he is invested in the system, or whether its just a game to him
Leave a comment:
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Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View PostPart of me wonders if Greenstein was deluded enough to think the resistance would be smaller than the firestorm it is. He's likely used to getting his way. He also tends to be surrounded by people that I think are likely to agree with him.
But, his texting, eating, and not looking at the screen during the public comments was a really bad look. It might end up haunting him.
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