PASSHE Institutions Merging

[Fightingscot82]

I feel like resistance is futile at this point. That's what I got from todays call.

Now, can the Faculty Union sue if the CBA is violated? I don't know.

And if I were leading the resistance, I'd probably shift to voicing my concerns to the Legislature. I don't know if this will work.

It's pretty clear that the BOG are enamored with Greenstein and this plan. And he is a smart guy. I just don't think he has visibility towards every level of these orgs and I don't know that the consultants do either.

The BOG is a vanity troupe. Of the 20 members:
- 11 appointed by the governor
- 3 are current Student Government presidents
- 4 are legislators, 2 each from the house majority and minority leaders
- the Governor
- the Secretary of Education (appointed by the governor)

There's very little critical thinking going on in here. Folks probably don't veer far from the mindset they first bring: everything PASSHE does is rainbows or they've gotta rein in these spend-happy liberals.

[complaint_hopeful]

I feel like resistance is futile at this point. That's what I got from todays call.

Now, can the Faculty Union sue if the CBA is violated? I don't know.

And if I were leading the resistance, I'd probably shift to voicing my concerns to the Legislature. I don't know if this will work.

It's pretty clear that the BOG are enamored with Greenstein and this plan. And he is a smart guy. I just don't think he has visibility towards every level of these orgs and I don't know that the consultants do either.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Also, the results of the student survey won't be released until after the final vote. That's a big WTF too.

Essentially saying they don't really give a F about the results of the student survey ...

[complaint_hopeful]

Also, the results of the student survey won't be released until after the final vote. That's a big WTF too.

I want to get behind this Integration. I really do. But, there are a bunch of things that appear shady going on. Now, whether their intent is shady...I don't know.

But, essentially dismissing 90% of comments is pretty huge. It kind of appears like they want to do everything they can to fast forward this to the board vote and vote it in.

[Fightingscot82]

Also, the results of the student survey won't be released until after the final vote. That's a big WTF too.

[complaint_hopeful]

So the video conference ones where people can call in with concerns...you get 2 minutes to make a comment...and PASSHE will issue replies at a later date:

APSCUF Higher Education Govt. Relations on Twitter: "Transparency? - ONLY 2 minutes for public comment per speaker* - Questions/comments will not be answered by PASSHE until a later date - Board of Governors members can attend "to the extent possible"" / Twitter

[complaint_hopeful]

No, as I recall, course offerings are eliminated altogether at the non-hub schools. I can look it up later but I think it's no on-campus Business courses at LH.

Could be. I actually didn't see the NE one. I only saw the West.

[complaint_hopeful]

APSCUF has a screenshot of the slide about the 299 comments. I have to say, I want to be on board with the Integration. And I think some people have some valid concerns. But the Chancellor appears to be treating most concerns like they're people just fighting change. It's frustrating. People want this to succeed.

APSCUF Higher Education Govt. Relations on Twitter: "This is unacceptable. Act 50 outlines a public comment that can range from support/oppose to "actionable" items. To put it on the public to "fix" the plan is not how this process was outlined. The BOG should be getting totals of both those supporting or opposing." / Twitter

[iupgroundhog]

As I understand it, there are hub campuses for a program like business...meaning that it originates from there. But, that doesn't mean that the other 2 campuses won't have in person business classes. I think it's on a case by case basis.

As far as the NCAA ruling...like I've said before...it's important to us on this board, but I think Academics and cost reductions are the main concerns in the Integration.

So yeah...if the NCAA has an unfavorable ruling against sports...they may need to adjust the org structures to get a favorable one. Like maybe you have to keep financial aid depts separate. <-- That's just a guess. But, it seems like their plan is for this to be live Aug 2022 and aren't letting anything stop them.

The fact that 90% of the public comments were labelled as unactionable is pretty telling.

No, as I recall, course offerings are eliminated altogether at the non-hub schools. I can look it up later but I think it's no on-campus Business courses at LH.

[complaint_hopeful]

All true, the other thing they are not accounting for are the students that change majors half way through a program. There are alot of potential PAs that decide business is better for them, or business majors that would rather do something in the health sciences. Alot of students really don't know for sure what they want to pursue the first couple years. How will they be able to explore this at the specialized campuses ? Then there is the chance that a weaker school essentially becomes a community college, with all but a few specialized students doing only 2 years there.

As far as the NCAA decision, do you think the Chancellor really cares what the NCAA will say? If the decision comes back against sports at all schools, I expect him to throw up his hands, blame the NCAA for giving him the wrong impression, or being unfair somehow, but there will be nothing he can do about it anymore, and the Triad will have just one sports program, maybe some sports located at different campuses.

As I understand it, there are hub campuses for a program like business...meaning that it originates from there. But, that doesn't mean that the other 2 campuses won't have in person business classes. I think it's on a case by case basis.

As far as the NCAA ruling...like I've said before...it's important to us on this board, but I think Academics and cost reductions are the main concerns in the Integration.

So yeah...if the NCAA has an unfavorable ruling against sports...they may need to adjust the org structures to get a favorable one. Like maybe you have to keep financial aid depts separate. <-- That's just a guess. But, it seems like their plan is for this to be live Aug 2022 and aren't letting anything stop them.

The fact that 90% of the public comments were labelled as unactionable is pretty telling.

[ironmaniup]

Actually, if you look closely, there are outcomes for which you can make projections. It just a plan, but you can look at some details and figure out the outcome.

I looked at the academic program array for the NE triad. What it has is certain programs that will be the home base for that major at a certain school, programs that would be online only, and programs that would be offered at all 3 schools.

It all results in more specialization, which is an idea that has been bandied about for a long time. But what will it do to the school, its makeup, its character?

For example, in the NE, Bloom becomes the Business school. There's a big emphasis on that. Business is a popular major at LH so that will hurt LH. No question. I sense there is politics involved in some of this. At the same time, LH becomes the HQ for the sports-related, athletics training, health-related, of course, the PA program, and Sports Administration. That goes a long way to making LH mainly a jock school, which is a rep it has had in the past. It regresses as an institution, IMO. What does that do to the image of the school, overall. Will students want to attend a more specialized version of the school? Mansfield essentially becomes the Music school. Sure, there are other majors. But they are more limited. I think that is going to reduce demand, overall. You can make a fairly reliable estimate of how many students LH loses without a campus-based Business program.

And if LH and Mansfield are more specialized it puts them into competition with a different competitive set. Current students will be able to complete their programs where they started them but future students are going to be jostled between the 3 schools and I don't think you can assume that they will choose the triad over other schools with those conditions.

All true, the other thing they are not accounting for are the students that change majors half way through a program. There are alot of potential PAs that decide business is better for them, or business majors that would rather do something in the health sciences. Alot of students really don't know for sure what they want to pursue the first couple years. How will they be able to explore this at the specialized campuses ? Then there is the chance that a weaker school essentially becomes a community college, with all but a few specialized students doing only 2 years there.

As far as the NCAA decision, do you think the Chancellor really cares what the NCAA will say? If the decision comes back against sports at all schools, I expect him to throw up his hands, blame the NCAA for giving him the wrong impression, or being unfair somehow, but there will be nothing he can do about it anymore, and the Triad will have just one sports program, maybe some sports located at different campuses.

[iupgroundhog]

Actually, if you look closely, there are outcomes for which you can make projections. It just a plan, but you can look at some details and figure out the outcome.

I looked at the academic program array for the NE triad. What it has is certain programs that will be the home base for that major at a certain school, programs that would be online only, and programs that would be offered at all 3 schools.

It all results in more specialization, which is an idea that has been bandied about for a long time. But what will it do to the school, its makeup, its character?

For example, in the NE, Bloom becomes the Business school. There's a big emphasis on that. Business is a popular major at LH so that will hurt LH. No question. I sense there is politics involved in some of this. At the same time, LH becomes the HQ for the sports-related, athletics training, health-related, of course, the PA program, and Sports Administration. That goes a long way to making LH mainly a jock school, which is a rep it has had in the past. It regresses as an institution, IMO. What does that do to the image of the school, overall. Will students want to attend a more specialized version of the school? Mansfield essentially becomes the Music school. Sure, there are other majors. But they are more limited. I think that is going to reduce demand, overall. You can make a fairly reliable estimate of how many students LH loses without a campus-based Business program.

And if LH and Mansfield are more specialized it puts them into competition with a different competitive set. Current students will be able to complete their programs where they started them but future students are going to be jostled between the 3 schools and I don't think you can assume that they will choose the triad over other schools with those conditions.

[complaint_hopeful]

Exactly. Unfortunately the legislature is the last line of defense and they're controlled by the party who is already spinning this as holding education accountable (read: fighting back on liberals wantonly spending our money). The big media is just parroting the talking points especially 25% savings to students (the biggest falsehood of the plan).

Yeah - On the 25% savings, the schools are saying that they're going to save THEMSELVES 25% on the cost of delivering education. Not save the students 25%.

[complaint_hopeful]

That he said that is pretty shocking. It's disrespectful. It's dismissive of the views of the general public. Don't be manipulated by this guy.

The purpose of a comment period is to get feedback from the public, AKA "opinions." The purpose of that 60 day comment period is NOT to obtain actionable policy ideas from the public. that's the job of the policymakers. Hello?

What he's doing now is distraction. What is germane about the comments is how many support the plan and how many oppose it, or question it. He doesn't want to address that. He's not going to confront the idea that it's unpopular. That would mean his defeat and put a crimp in his career objectives.

It's apparent that this guy is going to try to jam this down the throats of Pennsylvanians, regardless of anything anybody else says.

For beginners, the whole thing is no good without a decision from the NCAA and I don't think that is forthcoming. I really do think it is going to be a disaster. With the money and energy already spent on it, it already is a disaster. Especially for the schools in the West.

I 100% agree with you. So the comments, I have to assume were largely negative. So instead of reading them, they eliminated like 90% as non-actionable, then grouped the 10% and talked about how they were addressing them.

The board is likely not going to vote this down. They seem to thing the Chancellor and this plan are innovative and historic. (Someone actually used the word 'historic' to describe it).

[Fightingscot82]

That he said that is pretty shocking. It's disrespectful. It's dismissive of the views of the general public. Don't be manipulated by this guy.

The purpose of a comment period is to get feedback from the public, AKA "opinions." The purpose of that 60 day comment period is NOT to obtain actionable policy ideas from the public. that's the job of the policymakers. Hello?

What he's doing now is distraction. What is germane about the comments is how many support the plan and how many oppose it, or question it. He doesn't want to address that. He's not going to confront the idea that it's unpopular. That would mean his defeat and put a crimp in his career objectives.

It's apparent that this guy is going to try to jam this down the throats of Pennsylvanians, regardless of anything anybody else says.

For beginners, the whole thing is no good without a decision fro the NCAA and I don't think that is forthcoming. I really do think it is going to be a disaster. With the money and energy already spent on it, it already is a disaster. Especially for the schools in the West.

Exactly. Unfortunately the legislature is the last line of defense and they're controlled by the party who is already spinning this as holding education accountable (read: fighting back on liberals wantonly spending our money). The big media is just parroting the talking points especially 25% savings to students (the biggest falsehood of the plan).