PASSHE Institutions Merging

[iupgroundhog]

No doubt. When picking a 'state school' much more goes in to it than academics. West Chester offers a very lively atmosphere. Urban. Tons to do. Compare that to a Lock Haven or Clarion, etc.

A lot of the enrollment increase WCU has seen is a result of a lively bar scene in downtown West Chester.

Uh, no.

Not that it isn't a factor but it would be way down the list.

First of all, the drinking age in PA is 21. Most of the students can't legally drink in bars. Secondly, it's expensive in most cases. Downtown West Chester is frequented by adults from the area more than students. I think it gives parents nice places to go to when they come to visit, though. BTW, I love West Chester.

In some ways, I am not too sure about WCU. I used to go to the WCU library quite a bit. For some reference books I needed the libraries at Temple and WCU had them (I didn't want to pay $400 to buy them). So, I would go to WCU. Once there was a detour around the main route into campus and I had to go down a side street populated by student housing. It was a Thursday or Friday afternoon. So, I've been to a lot of college campuses and in my youth I was no lightweight partier. I have never seen the kind of debauchery at a college as on that West Chester street. I sorta doubt their parents would approve of it. So, it is definitely a party atmosphere. But it's not because of the downtown area.

I think Indiana has a vibrant scene on Philly Street and it's actually more accessible to students than in WC. IUP has a lot of students from SE PA but for a lot of people their takeaway from Indiana is "cow town." It's all relative.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Academics aside, I'm going to go out on a limb and say the 30+ bars in downtown WC play a significant role.

No doubt. When picking a 'state school' much more goes in to it than academics. West Chester offers a very lively atmosphere. Urban. Tons to do. Compare that to a Lock Haven or Clarion, etc.

[Wcball00]

I have a question and 2 points to throw out there.

==West Chester Model
Matt or anyone else that knows,
What has West Chester done in the last 9 years that led to their 22% increase in enrollment? Did they add new majors, add a grad program, reduce cost significantly, or developed a relationship with another school where part of program is at WC and part is at another school.

Academics aside, I'm going to go out on a limb and say the 30+ bars in downtown WC play a significant role.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Bama definitely has a long term strategy to recruit kids via full or nearly full scholarships to students from the North and possibly other parts of the country. Seems like they are eyeing a Notre Dame-like National following in 20 years.

It's a beautiful campus. The ladies are a little different down there, too.

[IUPTrackMan]

My niece, when she started the search process a couple years ago, put Michigan State and UCLA on her list. She went to high school in the Pittsburgh suburbs.

Alabama recruits students from all over the country (not just football players), and I've heard that some of their marketing pieces have Nick Saban on the cover. I'd imagine some other schools do similar things to recruit students.

Bama definitely has a long term strategy to recruit kids via full or nearly full scholarships to students from the North and possibly other parts of the country. Seems like they are eyeing a Notre Dame-like National following in 20 years.

[WarriorVoice]

I expect to see enrollment tick upward at ESU...When 9/11 happened we saw a large migration to the West from folks in the Apple who lost their appetite for it. Monroe County PA went from 143,000 in 2001 to 169,000 in 2011. I truly believe we'll see another migration as the pandemic cruises on...You should see the crowds at State Parks and on the Delaware River on weekends these days...Heck with Global Warming, the Delaware River might soon be on the Eastern Seaboard...

[Fightingscot82]

I think the problem with the system is too many overlapping programs and nobody taking the initiative to bring in a new department like Architecture/Design, Engineering & Project Management.

The enrollment challenge has been that most of their enrollment comes from a 90 minute radius around each campus and in most cases those areas are experiencing population loss especially of high school students. Since that's the case, overlapping programs aren't an issue. The schools are hyper regional in reputation and very few programs are truly magnetic. The only schools (programs) I can think of are Edinboro (applied media art), Ship (engineering), Lock Haven (pre-PA) but even then these programs aren't unique to those specific schools. A good example is that when Clarion and Edinboro ended their degree programs in music, the programs at IUP and Slippery Rock didn't benefit. The schools are loaded with "good" programs but most of the true magnets are at the graduate level and typically online.

[Fightingscot82]

Frankly, I don't think it's in the schools' best interests to avoid mergers. I think merging, even up to a complete oneness, is unavoidable and the only way this system survives.

Get used to it now. Yes, identity will be a casualty. My high school doesn't exist anymore. Many of the buildings I spent my time in at IUP don't exist. You accept it and move on.

I think its in their best interest to welcome shared administrative services. Finances are driving this - not a lack of identity. Systemwide enrollment has declined but not to far off from where the demographic decline has left their target population. If they can find a way to control costs and stabilize enrollment full on mergers will stop being talked about. Regional master's universities like PASSHE (IUP is more regional master's than national university) are all struggling from the same challenges related to population shifts.

[shipfbfan1]

Frankly, I don't think it's in the schools' best interests to avoid mergers. I think merging, even up to a complete oneness, is unavoidable and the only way this system survives.

Get used to it now. Yes, identity will be a casualty. My high school doesn't exist anymore. Many of the buildings I spent my time in at IUP don't exist. You accept it and move on.

I think the problem with the system is too many overlapping programs and nobody taking the initiative to bring in a new department like Architecture/Design, Engineering & Project Management.

[iupgroundhog]

I think the schools can avoid mergers but they'll need to get some flexibility with staffing.

Frankly, I don't think it's in the schools' best interests to avoid mergers. I think merging, even up to a complete oneness, is unavoidable and the only way this system survives.

Get used to it now. Yes, identity will be a casualty. My high school doesn't exist anymore. Many of the buildings I spent my time in at IUP don't exist. You accept it and move on.

[iupgroundhog]

Back in 2010 I thought Ship could push their enrollment up to 9000-10000 by 2020 not lose over 2000 students. Looking at those numbers if they can't figure out how to boost enrollment back to 7000+ they may at some point be merged with Millersville.

Agreed. As an IUP-affiliated person I was always conscious of the advances from other schools and I heard Ship's footsteps the loudest. Their growth, not only in enrollment but great programs. Their graduate program offerings. Their success at selectivity.

So, I was surprised by what has happened at Ship. I think they have a similar problem as IUP - and that is geographical location.

[Fightingscot82]

Back in 2010 I thought Ship could push their enrollment up to 9000-10000 by 2020 not lose over 2000 students. Looking at those numbers if they can't figure out how to boost enrollment back to 7000+ they may at some point be merged with Millersville.

I think that's the same boat a lot of schools were in 10 years ago. They had just boosted enrollment and had plans for more growth in spite of the looming K-12 population cliff. I think the schools can avoid mergers but they'll need to get some flexibility with staffing. The system-wide contracts are killing them. Having worked at both public and private universities, PASSHE has excellent pay and the benefits are whatever is beyond excellent. It also makes it very difficult to control costs when 70% of your employees are guaranteed raises. Sure you can plan for those but the additional revenue just isn't there. Raises need to be tied to net revenue (enrollment-driven). Then the schools can also control for cost of living - the cost of living in Clarion or Mansfield is pennies on the dollar compared to West Chester and Cheyney.

[shipfbfan1]

Back in 2010 I thought Ship could push their enrollment up to 9000-10000 by 2020 not lose over 2000 students. Looking at those numbers if they can't figure out how to boost enrollment back to 7000+ they may at some point be merged with Millersville.

[Fightingscot82]

West Chester probably has the best reputation with high school families of all PASSHE schools. They're also highly rated - a top tier regional master's while IUP flounders in the also-ran territory of "national universities". That's not a slight on IUP - they get killed in the methodology for most rankings. West Chester also kills it in the transfer world - they're surrounded by community colleges. I'll also argue that they have the best location of any - its a small town feel that's surrounded by Philly suburbs. For a lot of suburban Philly kids, they can go to West Chester and it feels like home without going too far. Plus they're still close to their friends going to Drexel, Villanova, etc.

[Matt Burglund]

==Destination College Mania
The surrounding area is very nice, but I doubt if that is a major driver. Without price reduction. I believe the D2 schools across the county are going to have a rough time attracting students in the current environment because so many kids are are looking at college being a life changing event.

My wife is an elementary school teacher here in PA and just today there was a graduation party for twins she had. One is headed to University of Florida and the other will be at Oklahoma University. This is very commonplace right now.

My son had 6 HS classmates go to Alabama. Other HS classmates went to Clemson, Florida St, North Carolina, Wake Forest, Ohio St, Ole Miss, Florida Atlantic, Kentucky. Coworkers of mine had kids that went to WVU, VIrginia Tech (2), Wake Forest.

My niece, when she started the search process a couple years ago, put Michigan State and UCLA on her list. She went to high school in the Pittsburgh suburbs.

Alabama recruits students from all over the country (not just football players), and I've heard that some of their marketing pieces have Nick Saban on the cover. I'd imagine some other schools do similar things to recruit students.