PASSHE Institutions Merging

[Fightingscot82]

I'm not bothered by how much they make. That's in line with what VPs are paid. They also don't get the perks of the president. If you don't pay market salary, you get bad candidates and/or you have frequent turnover.

I agree that there should have been consistent policy across the system. IUP should also have provided more information to justify their decision. The state says they can't mandate immunization. Fine, but say that. If immunization rates of students and the community are lower than anticipated, say that too. Nothing is secret at these schools so they might as well just give all the information up front.

[complaint_hopeful]

A big part of the problem is PASSHE, despite a very highly paid leadership team...doesn't tell these schools what to do. Why not standardize mask wearing? To not wear masks. Why does PASSHE need VPs of a bunch of areas if they aren't going to give guidance? That's such a huge waste of resources. And some of these people make over $200k. Yet Greenstein threatens to dissolve PASSHE...if Integration is voted down.

It's like this for a lot of things. They let each campus do what they want.

And they can claim a victory for the purchasing shared service, but it's been a rough transition. And campuses have had to have other employees start to do some purchasing tasks as passhe doesn't do everything that was done before.

As far as cutting sports...I think the initial take going into the Integration was to do that. Then, they saw that they actually made tuition dollars from it. So they shifted.

[GregD]

Don't say that too often. They might take you up on it.

My guess is that I may be the senior member on this board, which offers me the perspective of too many decades of witnessing gross incompetence directing the System.
Thank God athletics largely stayed above the level the System could have dragged it into.
This and some excellent (some not all) instructors in various departments were highlights but administrative incompetence overwhelmed them and I fear it still is in control.

[Fightingscot82]

This is becoming a nightmare. Is there anything else the System schools can do to tell students to go elsewhere?

Cut sports.

[GregD]

This is becoming a nightmare. Is there anything else the System schools can do to tell students to go elsewhere?

[Bart]

That's the story below - and its probably going to be similar across the board for PASSHE. The state issued guidance that they can't require students to be vaccinated and thus will require masks in common/group settings on campus. That legal guidance is odd considering that IUP requires meningitis vaccinations for any student living on campus (a waiver is available) https://www.iup.edu/healthservice/ho...eningitis-law/

Bloom is offering 12 scholarships through a lottery system for those vaccinated.

https://www.dailyitem.com/coronaviru...b89eb84a5.html

[Fightingscot82]

IUP in the Post Gazette today ... will require masks to be worn in classroom this Fall.

That's the story below - and its probably going to be similar across the board for PASSHE. The state issued guidance that they can't require students to be vaccinated and thus will require masks in common/group settings on campus. That legal guidance is odd considering that IUP requires meningitis vaccinations for any student living on campus (a waiver is available) https://www.iup.edu/healthservice/ho...eningitis-law/

[IUPbigINDIANS]

IUP in the Post Gazette today ... will require masks to be worn in classroom this Fall.

[complaint_hopeful]

Education peak and population peak. Don't forget the recession at the time which historically (until now) has led to college enrollment increases, especially adults seeking a second or graduate degree.

I have a lot of friends who were making TONS of money in geology due to oil & gas. Almost all are now either in other fields or looking for work. I also have a neighbor who is more of a grunt laborer and he said that he'll be surprised if he's still employed in 2022 due to capping & decreased demand.

Yep. Some of the schools are doing really bad in undergrad enrollment, but their grad school grows yearly which makes the numbers look less bad.

But, lose 1 undergrad and that's 4 years of tuition. Where grad school is what 1.5 to 2 years worth.

[complaint_hopeful]

That's laughably bad. These schools are killing themselves...and they all think they're being managed well.

[Fightingscot82]

Yuck this is bad. After all the bad press from integrations, nobody is going to want to attend a school still requiring masks.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/ed...s/202106220111

[Fightingscot82]

I tend to think the enrollment now is the 'normal' level for PASSHE and that the 2010 level was due to the education bubble.

I am sure that some kids choose to work on gas lines or other areas too. I just don't think it's a main factor. It's demographic, cost, brand, etc.

Education peak and population peak. Don't forget the recession at the time which historically (until now) has led to college enrollment increases, especially adults seeking a second or graduate degree.

I have a lot of friends who were making TONS of money in geology due to oil & gas. Almost all are now either in other fields or looking for work. I also have a neighbor who is more of a grunt laborer and he said that he'll be surprised if he's still employed in 2022 due to capping & decreased demand.

[complaint_hopeful]

I think the cost absolutely scares away those who are reluctant to choose college or those would would have dabbled at a 4-year instead of a community/junior college. But one of the things that also drove college enrollment in the 80s through 00s is the terrible job market for 18 year olds. Boomers had the luxury of having a solid fallback option like manufacturing work, heavy industry, or farm work. Some members of that same generation spent the next 30 years accelerating the demise of those industries in the name of lean/Six Sigma/black belt.

Yes. And cost for what you get.

If say a Kia is 40k or you can get a Cadillac for $48k...which do you choose?

[complaint_hopeful]

We are talking about PASSHE mergers due to enrolement decline so perhaps not a non sequitur. According to the DOL, in 2008 there were 442,000 persons in apprenticeships which included 132,000 new apprentices entering programs...in 2020, again according to the DOL, there were 633,000 persons enrolled in apprenticeships with 252,000 first year apprentices enrolled...That is a 43% increase in enrolled apprentices and a 91% increase in new enrolled apprentices.

I tend to think the enrollment now is the 'normal' level for PASSHE and that the 2010 level was due to the education bubble.

I am sure that some kids choose to work on gas lines or other areas too. I just don't think it's a main factor. It's demographic, cost, brand, etc.

[Fightingscot82]

Well, the percent of students choosing college is decreasing slightly since about 2010, and if you separate out the demographic groups there are even more significant changes - but those statistics aren't always available, and many in academics don't want to look at those. In particular rural male students. The other part of the change is completion rate and completion rate at the starting university. . This number has been plateauing even with much more assistance and grade inflation. Students becoming financially unable, or deciding to stop trying because of the cost is increasing, sort along with the increase in transferring, Of course covid is having a big impact too. https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2020/66...tober-2019.htm

I think the cost absolutely scares away those who are reluctant to choose college or those would would have dabbled at a 4-year instead of a community/junior college. But one of the things that also drove college enrollment in the 80s through 00s is the terrible job market for 18 year olds. Boomers had the luxury of having a solid fallback option like manufacturing work, heavy industry, or farm work. Some members of that same generation spent the next 30 years accelerating the demise of those industries in the name of lean/Six Sigma/black belt.