OT - Money's Best Value Colleges in PASSHE

[Fightingscot82]

So you went from "I think its a big deal" to agreeing that "none of it matters" in less than six hours. Maybe a record for self-contradiction.

It's a big deal for a regional master's state school to be ranked 100 spots ahead of the flagship with a reputable source.

However, rankings are created to move magazines and sell advertising. They shouldn't matter for an individual's college choice. That's what I agreed on. Edinboro doesn't rank well just about anywhere. But I know a ton of people who are confident their education was as good as anywhere. In the end, that's all that matters.

[Horror Child]

Another organization to discredit https://www.insightintodiversity.com...20-recipients/

[Horror Child]

So you went from "I think its a big deal" to agreeing that "none of it matters" in less than six hours. Maybe a record for self-contradiction.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Amen

[Fightingscot82]

To quote Shakespeare, "it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing"

At first, I saw these results and for someone from IUP it is alarming; however, these rankings are all about the methodology.

If you look at how they arrived at the rankings it is definitely open to a lot of criticism. But, like all college rankings it is what it is. They tell you how they did it and these are the results.Can't argue with that.

In this case, I think they throw so many factors together, some simply offsetting others, that the results, once you spit them out, really don't mean too much.

If you want to know "value" in financial terms you would simply take the cost of the education and correlate it with the return on an investment after, say, 10 years or some other time interval.

It's funny that, in the limitations/caveats, they specify student learning is not a factor. Well, duh.

My purpose is not to denigrate WCU and support IUP. However, there are things in the way this is done that helps WCU. For example, Money does not compensate for cost of living. WCU is helped by that because it's located in a higher cost/higher-income area.

In this as well as other rankings, WCU is helped by the large # of transfer students from community colleges. Since an important factor is graduation rate, those transfers likely have a much higher graduation rate.

Also, it's not clear how room and board figures into this. Do these rankings favor commuter-oriented schools?

Money does not consider out-of-state tuition impacts which probably hurt institutions like PSU and Pitt in the rankings. There are more out-of-state students paying more and possibly ending up with higher debt.

What about the Quality of Teaching? PASSHE schools have prided themselves on things like % of classes taught bu Ph.D's, etc. Doesn't that matter?

There are a lot of factors that just get thrown into the mix e.g. economic mobility could be a standalone category. PASSHE schools always score highly on that.

Things can be completely wrong in something like this. But if you look at our rankings they are qualitatively in line with a lot of truth. WCU and SRU have been doing well on the undergrad level. IUP has focused to a certain extent on graduate school development. They need to somehow shore up the undergrad situation.

In the end, none of this matters. There isn't too much in the hands of the individual PASSHE schools at this point. It almost all depends on the actions of the home office in Hbg.

[iupgroundhog]

I think its a big deal. To finish 100 spots ahead of Penn State is a big deal. But Penn State and Pitt being ranked so low makes me wonder if Money ranked them system-wide rather than just the main campuses like is traditionally done.

To quote Shakespeare, "it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing"

At first, I saw these results and for someone from IUP it is alarming; however, these rankings are all about the methodology.

If you look at how they arrived at the rankings it is definitely open to a lot of criticism. But, like all college rankings it is what it is. They tell you how they did it and these are the results.Can't argue with that.

In this case, I think they throw so many factors together, some simply offsetting others, that the results, once you spit them out, really don't mean too much.

If you want to know "value" in financial terms you would simply take the cost of the education and correlate it with the return on an investment after, say, 10 years or some other time interval.

It's funny that, in the limitations/caveats, they specify student learning is not a factor. Well, duh.

My purpose is not to denigrate WCU and support IUP. However, there are things in the way this is done that helps WCU. For example, Money does not compensate for cost of living. WCU is helped by that because it's located in a higher cost/higher-income area.

In this as well as other rankings, WCU is helped by the large # of transfer students from community colleges. Since an important factor is graduation rate, those transfers likely have a much higher graduation rate.

Also, it's not clear how room and board figures into this. Do these rankings favor commuter-oriented schools?

Money does not consider out-of-state tuition impacts which probably hurt institutions like PSU and Pitt in the rankings. There are more out-of-state students paying more and possibly ending up with higher debt.

What about the Quality of Teaching? PASSHE schools have prided themselves on things like % of classes taught bu Ph.D's, etc. Doesn't that matter?

There are a lot of factors that just get thrown into the mix e.g. economic mobility could be a standalone category. PASSHE schools always score highly on that.

Things can be completely wrong in something like this. But if you look at our rankings they are qualitatively in line with a lot of truth. WCU and SRU have been doing well on the undergrad level. IUP has focused to a certain extent on graduate school development. They need to somehow shore up the undergrad situation.

In the end, none of this matters. There isn't too much in the hands of the individual PASSHE schools at this point. It almost all depends on the actions of the home office in Hbg.

[Fightingscot82]

I think its a big deal. To finish 100 spots ahead of Penn State is a big deal. But Penn State and Pitt being ranked so low makes me wonder if Money ranked them system-wide rather than just the main campuses like is traditionally done.

[Fightingscot82]

Nah. Cheyney, East Stroudsburg, Edinboro, and Mansfield didn't even male the list.

Cheyney, Mansfield, and Edinboro (along with Clarion) have the lowest average student family income in PASSHE - and among the lowest for the state. I believe I read somewhere that 80% of Cheyney students come from families in the lowest 25% of household income - not adjusted for cost of SEPA living.

[IUPNation]

https://money.com/best-colleges/


174. West Chester
337. Slippery Rock
384. Bloomsburg
567. California
577. Shippensburg
590. Millersville
629. Clarion
631. Kutztown
669. Lock Haven
685. IUP

[Horror Child]

I'll have to look at their methodology.

https://money.com/best-colleges/methodology/

[Horror Child]

Yes, but you're well informed and those data points require some effort to gather and comprehend. The Tom Glancy public who glances through the money magazine ratings while on the porcelain throne now think that IUP is the worst value for their money in the PSSHE.

Nah. Cheyney, East Stroudsburg, Edinboro, and Mansfield didn't even male the list.

[iupgroundhog]

https://money.com/best-colleges/


174. West Chester
337. Slippery Rock
384. Bloomsburg
567. California
577. Shippensburg
590. Millersville
629. Clarion
631. Kutztown
669. Lock Haven
685. IUP

I'll have to look at their methodology.

[IUPMonk]

FWIW, most rankings are highly subjective based on data that doesn't really mean one school is better. For example, Harvard says they'll only accept applicants with a 4.0 GPA and a 1,600 SAT and that's all who apply they'd have a 100% acceptance rate and their rankings would plummet. Instead the wealthiest school in the world has an acceptance rate of just 5% because they intentionally keep their freshman class small. Most of their grad programs have unlimited capacity but have strict qualifications.

As a higher ed guy, the only rankings I know of that are compiled by higher ed people is Washington Monthly.

Otherwise look at average net cost for affordability, freshman retention rate and graduation rate for satisfaction, and average salary after so many years for upward mobility. Everything else is nebulous.

Yes, but you're well informed and those data points require some effort to gather and comprehend. The Tom Glancy public who glances through the money magazine ratings while on the porcelain throne now think that IUP is the worst value for their money in the PSSHE.

[Fightingscot82]

FWIW, most rankings are highly subjective based on data that doesn't really mean one school is better. For example, Harvard says they'll only accept applicants with a 4.0 GPA and a 1,600 SAT and that's all who apply they'd have a 100% acceptance rate and their rankings would plummet. Instead the wealthiest school in the world has an acceptance rate of just 5% because they intentionally keep their freshman class small. Most of their grad programs have unlimited capacity but have strict qualifications.

As a higher ed guy, the only rankings I know of that are compiled by higher ed people is Washington Monthly.

Otherwise look at average net cost for affordability, freshman retention rate and graduation rate for satisfaction, and average salary after so many years for upward mobility. Everything else is nebulous.

[Fightingscot82]

277. Penn State
280. Pitt
284. Temple