Beaver Stadium

[IUPNation]

With pay for players on the way, the pressure on Franklin and any other coach of a major P5 program is only going to mount. People paying the increasingly staggering cost of big-school season tickets are not going to be a patient bunch.

The NFL may have to subsidize their new minor league.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

With pay for players on the way, the pressure on Franklin and any other coach of a major P5 program is only going to mount. People paying the increasingly staggering cost of big-school season tickets are not going to be a patient bunch.

Makes you wonder how much longer the brass in Happy Valley will continue being third-fiddle in the BIG under his watch.

[Fightingscot82]

Makes you wonder how much longer the brass in Happy Valley will continue being third-fiddle in the BIG under his watch.

The brass being paid by the university are just fine as long as the program doesn't run at a deficit and there is such a positive impact on admissions and fundraising. Otherwise it really depends on how many Joebots get elected as trustees. That's the power struggle they have up there. Their Board of Trustees has 38 members. PASSHE schools usually have 12. Most are civic leaders chosen by the trustees, sitting PA cabinet secretaries with automatic seats, or seats elected by agriculture organizations (remember foundationally they're an agriculture school). The craziness is that 9 of the 38 seats are alumni seats elected by alumni. They campaign. They spend money. Lately a big push has come from Joebots and former football players whose vision of Penn State is more football than university. PASSHE schools have trustees who happen to be alumni - actual alumni have no say in any one seat on the folks overseeing the school.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

The brass being paid by the university are just fine as long as the program doesn't run at a deficit and there is such a positive impact on admissions and fundraising. Otherwise it really depends on how many Joebots get elected as trustees. That's the power struggle they have up there. Their Board of Trustees has 38 members. PASSHE schools usually have 12. Most are civic leaders chosen by the trustees, sitting PA cabinet secretaries with automatic seats, or seats elected by agriculture organizations (remember foundationally they're an agriculture school). The craziness is that 9 of the 38 seats are alumni seats elected by alumni. They campaign. They spend money. Lately a big push has come from Joebots and former football players whose vision of Penn State is more football than university. PASSHE schools have trustees who happen to be alumni - actual alumni have no say in any one seat on the folks overseeing the school.

The Joebots have to be starting to 'age out' a bit, right?

I was referring more to their real power donors who are probably getting real sick and tired of losing to Michigan and Ohio State yearly. The $500 donor up there has no pull. I'd have to imagine the 7-figure donors have a lot of say.

[Fightingscot82]

The Joebots have to be starting to 'age out' a bit, right?

I was referring more to their real power donors who are probably getting real sick and tired of losing to Michigan and Ohio State yearly. The $500 donor up there has no pull. I'd have to imagine the 7-figure donors have a lot of say.

From what little documents are public, donations to Penn State football are down significantly since 2011. Hmm, I wonder what happened then. But also, NIL has diverted what would have been school donations to NIL funding. I'm totally shocked at how little donations are coming in to ALL of Penn State athletics: https://barryfenchak.com/penn-state-...-philanthropy/

[iupgroundhog]

From what little documents are public, donations to Penn State football are down significantly since 2011. Hmm, I wonder what happened then. But also, NIL has diverted what would have been school donations to NIL funding. I'm totally shocked at how little donations are coming in to ALL of Penn State athletics: https://barryfenchak.com/penn-state-...-philanthropy/

That's interesting. What is the source for these numbers? If they are accurate, it's a shocking scenario. Something tells me the gap cannot be that wide, though.

Yes, something happened in 2011. I remember it well. You (FS82) informed the board late that night that the Board had fired Joe Paterno. I immediately replied that "it was a mistake."

For the record, I grew up as a "Joe bot." I came of age at the same time as Paterno's rise to prominence. My autumnal state of mind hung on the Nits outcome on Saturdays. Went to my first Beaver Stadium game in '74. My best friend's dad was a large donor (even though he was a Pitt grad) and they had 50 yard line season tickets and I would go with them whenever they had an open spot. Was there in New Orleans when JoePa won his first national championship and it blew me away because I had never been to a Bowl game before but I was in the New Orleans Hilton and all of these people from my neighborhood were there. They went to the Bowl game every year. Pretty strange - it was like being at a local festival put on by the volunteer fire company. But such was the Nittany Nation at that time. We all worshipped the program.

But with good reason. And the anti-JoePa and Pitt folks can never understand this. Paterno had a real philosophy that went beyond football. Considering the current discussion regarding NIL's and paying players, I am sure he is rolling over in his grave. The current state of affairs is what Paterno warned about and fought against his entire career. From insisting on conservative-looking jerseys to refusing to put players' names on their backs to eschewing the OSU (Woody Hayes) practice of placing Buckeye decals on players helmets for good performances, Paterno was all about team to the very end. He fiercely defended the group effort. Placing individuals above the team was not something that happened.

Paterno believed in the student-athlete concept. Penn State football was like being in an academy. He insisted on academic performance among his players. He always said that a small percentage of players would become pros, even at that level. Be prepared for life. Overwhelmingly, most of his players became professionals but not necessarily in football. Going back to the early days, for example, all-American and all-Pro Mike Reid who went on to even greater success as a performer/songwriter/ music mogul in Nashville after his football career ended. To Franco Harris and Lydell Mitchell who achieved great business success and pioneered black business ownership, to doctors, lawyers, scientists, people who did great things after football. Of the two people I was close to who played for Paterno, one was a high school friend who was a reserve OL and went on to be a dentist AND a Broadway actor. The other being my 1st cousin's son who was a reserve LB and went on to be a college professor with a successful family counseling practice. So, yeah, a lot of that following went away (or, at least became less fervent) after 2011. What we followed so religiously with Joe Paterno's teams ceased to exist.

So, if you read these comments to the end, thanks. I have been meaning to express these ideas for a while.

Here is the thing. Paterno's vision of college sports is now a distant memory. It's gone forever. I don't think that's a good thing.

[IUP24]

From what little documents are public, donations to Penn State football are down significantly since 2011. Hmm, I wonder what happened then. But also, NIL has diverted what would have been school donations to NIL funding. I'm totally shocked at how little donations are coming in to ALL of Penn State athletics: https://barryfenchak.com/penn-state-...-philanthropy/

In my posts on the other thread, I mostly call this out. People seem to have this misconstrued notion that these collectives are limitless. They are not. Now add 22 million dollars to the operating budget starting in 2025. This is significantly going to impact what NIL dollars are going to be available.

[Ship69]

The Joebots have to be starting to 'age out' a bit, right?

I was referring more to their real power donors who are probably getting real sick and tired of losing to Michigan and Ohio State yearly. The $500 donor up there has no pull. I'd have to imagine the 7-figure donors have a lot of say.

I could be wrong, but I don't $500 even gets you Nittany Lion Club membership at Penn State these days. My brother, who moved to cheaper seats some years back and is still paying a least a couple of grand for four seat tickets, has about had it with the big-money stuff and might be letting them go soon. Meanwhile, a donation of a few hundred at Ship gets my two free passes to all home football and basketball games. It might not be the big-time, but it's definitely a lot easier on the pocketbook to be a D2 fan.

[Fightingscot82]

That's interesting. What is the source for these numbers? If they are accurate, it's a shocking scenario. Something tells me the gap cannot be that wide, though.

Yes, something happened in 2011. I remember it well. You (FS82) informed the board late that night that the Board had fired Joe Paterno. I immediately replied that "it was a mistake."

For the record, I grew up as a "Joe bot." I came of age at the same time as Paterno's rise to prominence. My autumnal state of mind hung on the Nits outcome on Saturdays. Went to my first Beaver Stadium game in '74. My best friend's dad was a large donor (even though he was a Pitt grad) and they had 50 yard line season tickets and I would go with them whenever they had an open spot. Was there in New Orleans when JoePa won his first national championship and it blew me away because I had never been to a Bowl game before but I was in the New Orleans Hilton and all of these people from my neighborhood were there. They went to the Bowl game every year. Pretty strange - it was like being at a local festival put on by the volunteer fire company. But such was the Nittany Nation at that time. We all worshipped the program.

But with good reason. And the anti-JoePa and Pitt folks can never understand this. Paterno had a real philosophy that went beyond football. Considering the current discussion regarding NIL's and paying players, I am sure he is rolling over in his grave. The current state of affairs is what Paterno warned about and fought against his entire career. From insisting on conservative-looking jerseys to refusing to put players' names on their backs to eschewing the OSU (Woody Hayes) practice of placing Buckeye decals on players helmets for good performances, Paterno was all about team to the very end. He fiercely defended the group effort. Placing individuals above the team was not something that happened.

Paterno believed in the student-athlete concept. Penn State football was like being in an academy. He insisted on academic performance among his players. He always said that a small percentage of players would become pros, even at that level. Be prepared for life. Overwhelmingly, most of his players became professionals but not necessarily in football. Going back to the early days, for example, all-American and all-Pro Mike Reid who went on to even greater success as a performer/songwriter/ music mogul in Nashville after his football career ended. To Franco Harris and Lydell Mitchell who achieved great business success and pioneered black business ownership, to doctors, lawyers, scientists, people who did great things after football. Of the two people I was close to who played for Paterno, one was a high school friend who was a reserve OL and went on to be a dentist AND a Broadway actor. The other being my 1st cousin's son who was a reserve LB and went on to be a college professor with a successful family counseling practice. So, yeah, a lot of that following went away (or, at least became less fervent) after 2011. What we followed so religiously with Joe Paterno's teams ceased to exist.

So, if you read these comments to the end, thanks. I have been meaning to express these ideas for a while.

Here is the thing. Paterno's vision of college sports is now a distant memory. It's gone forever. I don't think that's a good thing.

He's on the Penn State Board of Trustees, so I assume his information is accurate. Otherwise he'd be violating his duty of care to the institution.

I did not grow up a Penn State fan - or any other one FBS team. I definitely followed them closer than others in those big 90s runs and when my sister started attending and could get us student section tickets for $15. But then I took a job at Penn State and heard the stories about what the public didn't know. People who had worked there for decades and witnessed things firsthand. Some of those details have since come out in the years after the Sandusky/Paterno saga (I personally witnessed him get out of his car and scold a student he felt didn't have the right of way at a 4 way intersection on campus). I think Paterno was a great coach (one of the all time greatest) with a great perspective on college sports and philanthropic support of the university and the community (most didn't know he gave more toward the construction of a second catholic church than the diocese did, ironically called Our Lady of Victory). But unfortunately all good things have warts underneath. There are documented times when he brushed things under the rug that would be breaking news today. He made excuses for and covered up sexual assaulters not on his staff. I think Sandusky doesn't happen if he had retired like any normal person. I blame the university for being afraid to force that issue. Nobody should have a job for life unless they're self employed. An 80 year old wasn't going to fully grasp the complexities of the present day. But by 2011, he was just about deified and university leaders were afraid of him. I sat in Old Main and a Vice President of the University admitted that she was afraid and nervous to meet with him later. Someone who should have had more administrative power had to negotiate with him as if he had the upper hand. The football coach never should - no matter what they've accomplished or how much money is involved.

[Fightingscot82]

I could be wrong, but I don't $500 even gets you Nittany Lion Club membership at Penn State these days. My brother, who moved to cheaper seats some years back and is still paying a least a couple of grand for four seat tickets, has about had it with the big-money stuff and might be letting them go soon. Meanwhile, a donation of a few hundred at Ship gets my two free passes to all home football and basketball games. It might not be the big-time, but it's definitely a lot easier on the pocketbook to be a D2 fan.

Its still $100 but you don't get the good benefits until $5,000/year.

[IUPNation]

The Joebots have to be starting to 'age out' a bit, right?

I was referring more to their real power donors who are probably getting real sick and tired of losing to Michigan and Ohio State yearly. The $500 donor up there has no pull. I'd have to imagine the 7-figure donors have a lot of say.

Now they’ll get to lose to the PAC 12 teams that joined…

[IUPNation]

He's on the Penn State Board of Trustees, so I assume his information is accurate. Otherwise he'd be violating his duty of care to the institution.

I did not grow up a Penn State fan - or any other one FBS team. I definitely followed them closer than others in those big 90s runs and when my sister started attending and could get us student section tickets for $15. But then I took a job at Penn State and heard the stories about what the public didn't know. People who had worked there for decades and witnessed things firsthand. Some of those details have since come out in the years after the Sandusky/Paterno saga (I personally witnessed him get out of his car and scold a student he felt didn't have the right of way at a 4 way intersection on campus). I think Paterno was a great coach (one of the all time greatest) with a great perspective on college sports and philanthropic support of the university and the community (most didn't know he gave more toward the construction of a second catholic church than the diocese did, ironically called Our Lady of Victory). But unfortunately all good things have warts underneath. There are documented times when he brushed things under the rug that would be breaking news today. He made excuses for and covered up sexual assaulters not on his staff. I think Sandusky doesn't happen if he had retired like any normal person. I blame the university for being afraid to force that issue. Nobody should have a job for life unless they're self employed. An 80 year old wasn't going to fully grasp the complexities of the present day. But by 2011, he was just about deified and university leaders were afraid of him. I sat in Old Main and a Vice President of the University admitted that she was afraid and nervous to meet with him later. Someone who should have had more administrative power had to negotiate with him as if he had the upper hand. The football coach never should - no matter what they've accomplished or how much money is involved.

He should have retired in the 90’s…especially after the 94 run where they got hosed of the National Title.

He was long past his expiration date.

[iupgroundhog]

He's on the Penn State Board of Trustees, so I assume his information is accurate. Otherwise he'd be violating his duty of care to the institution.

I did not grow up a Penn State fan - or any other one FBS team. I definitely followed them closer than others in those big 90s runs and when my sister started attending and could get us student section tickets for $15. But then I took a job at Penn State and heard the stories about what the public didn't know. People who had worked there for decades and witnessed things firsthand. Some of those details have since come out in the years after the Sandusky/Paterno saga (I personally witnessed him get out of his car and scold a student he felt didn't have the right of way at a 4 way intersection on campus). I think Paterno was a great coach (one of the all time greatest) with a great perspective on college sports and philanthropic support of the university and the community (most didn't know he gave more toward the construction of a second catholic church than the diocese did, ironically called Our Lady of Victory). But unfortunately all good things have warts underneath. There are documented times when he brushed things under the rug that would be breaking news today. He made excuses for and covered up sexual assaulters not on his staff. I think Sandusky doesn't happen if he had retired like any normal person. I blame the university for being afraid to force that issue. Nobody should have a job for life unless they're self employed. An 80 year old wasn't going to fully grasp the complexities of the present day. But by 2011, he was just about deified and university leaders were afraid of him. I sat in Old Main and a Vice President of the University admitted that she was afraid and nervous to meet with him later. Someone who should have had more administrative power had to negotiate with him as if he had the upper hand. The football coach never should - no matter what they've accomplished or how much money is involved.

I get it. But I was trying to focus on the ideals amid the current environment in college football.

I don't doubt that there is truth in what you are describing; however, it's virtually all innuendo. Look, my former coaches and teachers were on the football coaching staff at Central Mountain HS where Sandusky's story broke and they didn't grasp what was going on. So, there are a lot of different angles. Not making excuses for him. Once probably early 2000's when the program was sliding I remember a press conference when Paterno was asked about some sexual assault charge and he blew off the question in a way that to me said he didn't really understand the situation.

My cousin got cut going into his last year. His position coach was Sandusky. Sandusky told my cousin that he missed the first meeting so he was not on the team after he was on the team for the previous 2 years (he had transferred in from a D3 school). He felt he was deceived. They had just brought in Lavar Arrington, Brandon Noble, and another all-State LB from Pgh who never made it to the NFL so it could have made sense to squeeze out a LB who vacillated between the 2nd and 3rd team in his final year of eligibility but my cousin was extremely upset about the way they did it and the timing. It was screwed up. I have never raised the issue with him again. It's possible there was more to the story.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I get it. But I was trying to focus on the ideals amid the current environment in college football.

I don't doubt that there is truth in what you are describing; however, it's virtually all innuendo. Look, my former coaches and teachers were on the football coaching staff at Central Mountain HS where Sandusky's story broke and they didn't grasp what was going on. So, there are a lot of different angles. Not making excuses for him. Once probably early 2000's when the program was sliding I remember a press conference when Paterno was asked about some sexual assault charge and he blew off the question in a way that to me said he didn't really understand the situation.

My cousin got cut going into his last year. His position coach was Sandusky. Sandusky told my cousin that he missed the first meeting so he was not on the team after he was on the team for the previous 2 years (he had transferred in from a D3 school). He felt he was deceived. They had just brought in Lavar Arrington, Brandon Noble, and another all-State LB from Pgh who never made it to the NFL so it could have made sense to squeeze out a LB who vacillated between the 2nd and 3rd team in his final year of eligibility but my cousin was extremely upset about the way they did it and the timing. It was screwed up. I have never raised the issue with him again. It's possible there was more to the story.

In the Lavar Arrington mini-era they pulled one stud after another from Pittsburgh. It was crushing to the hometown Panthers.

Arrington, Brandon Short, etc.

You may be thinking of Ron Graham (LB from Penn Hills). He was after Arrington and Short but was supposed to be the next ballyhooed WPIAL defensive star up there. He and Joe didn't hit it off real well per the rumor mill.

[iupgroundhog]

He's on the Penn State Board of Trustees, so I assume his information is accurate. Otherwise he'd be violating his duty of care to the institution.

I did not grow up a Penn State fan - or any other one FBS team. I definitely followed them closer than others in those big 90s runs and when my sister started attending and could get us student section tickets for $15. But then I took a job at Penn State and heard the stories about what the public didn't know. People who had worked there for decades and witnessed things firsthand. Some of those details have since come out in the years after the Sandusky/Paterno saga (I personally witnessed him get out of his car and scold a student he felt didn't have the right of way at a 4 way intersection on campus). I think Paterno was a great coach (one of the all time greatest) with a great perspective on college sports and philanthropic support of the university and the community (most didn't know he gave more toward the construction of a second catholic church than the diocese did, ironically called Our Lady of Victory). But unfortunately all good things have warts underneath. There are documented times when he brushed things under the rug that would be breaking news today. He made excuses for and covered up sexual assaulters not on his staff. I think Sandusky doesn't happen if he had retired like any normal person. I blame the university for being afraid to force that issue. Nobody should have a job for life unless they're self employed. An 80 year old wasn't going to fully grasp the complexities of the present day. But by 2011, he was just about deified and university leaders were afraid of him. I sat in Old Main and a Vice President of the University admitted that she was afraid and nervous to meet with him later. Someone who should have had more administrative power had to negotiate with him as if he had the upper hand. The football coach never should - no matter what they've accomplished or how much money is involved.

Paterno always claimed that the university, alumni, boosters, and fans didn't want him to retire. That was most likely true. After all, he was a living legend and he was pursuing the all-time major college record for winning games. As long as they were competitive, which they were in his last years, it was ok.

As far as the VP you refer to, that was probably on her. Could be perception or she just wasn't a football person. I mean, this is a guy who walked to work and greeted undergraduate students on their way to class every day. He had a lot of authority but I think he was reasonable. Ironically, regarding the 2002 incident he said he did as he was required by providing a report to his superiors, the AD and the University President.