Time to be frank about reality...

[jimbo slice]

I agree with the main concept, but think you may be reading too much into the statement. Almost all coaches talk about conf.champ being one of their goals.

Strongly agree with number 3.

Agree with number 4. I see 4 being the cause of 2, tbh. The problem with the defense appears to be more about personnel than philosophy, imo.

watching that OU vs. NWM game on line, i was shocked at how little the OU dline did against NW Oline. they weren't quick or physical. and just got out hustled and out played. i think that's a sign of inbreeding. not in THAT sense because its arkansas or anything lol.

its from a standpoint of only having to be good enough to beat everyone in the GAC. if you aren't facing competition that is kicking your ass every week, your only has to be good enough to win. they basing their accomplishments on who they've faced. not who they could face. i always tell mine not to be the best on the team. be the best in your district and when you are him, be the best in the state and so forth and so on. when you are content with being the best in the GAC and thats it, your gonna get your sh*t pushed in on a national broadcast.

[jimbo slice]

and Harding runs flexbone. There’s only 2 formations. So it’s not “multiple formation double wing”

I've used the DW playbook for almost 18 years now. call it what you want. there are wings. USUALLY one either side of the formation. hence, double wing. formation as old as time. fluff it up and make it yours i suppose. both of my sons were recruited for Oline at Harding. I've seen the offense in person. I'm not some dude on a message board just arguing semantics.
i can send you exact replicas of your "flex bone plays" in a "double tight double wing" playbook. the local high school coach here has it running from 2nd grade football all the way to high school varsity. in fact, if you are a Harding fan, you would know several of our assistant coaches here.

[Predatory Primates]

After several years of watching Ouachita not get it done come PO time, here are my thoughts as to why Ouachita Baptist is 1-5 in the POs and will not likely have success in the playoffs anytime soon...

1) Portrayed Mentality/Outlook. Todd Knight said in an interview on Inside D2 Football show earlier this season that he believes National Championships come by winning Conference Championships first. That is demonstrably untrue because TAMUC in '17 & UWF in '19 won national titles, but did not win conference titles. Frankly, that kind of talk sounds like a team that in more interested in conference titles than national titles, or in other words is just happy to be in the playoffs as opposed to wanting to be a serious contender. Not a good look. HC shouldn't be talking about GAC titles when asked about what his team needs to do to improve their PO performance. He should be talking about what he's going to do to take that next step towards being a PO contender.

2) De facto Defensive Philosophy. The whole Bend-but-don't-break + Opportunistic style D doesn't work well in the POs, especially SR3, when combined with a Power Running O. Those kinds of defenses only work well in POs if a team is running a Spread, RPO, Air Raid+, etc., type offense. Also, during the regular season these kinds of defenses when used in a silo schedule can look like a dominating D when it is playing familiar weaker teams in conference play. Either Ouachita needs to change how they approach D or they need to change how they approach O.

3) Familiarity/Lack of Familiarity with opponents. As for regular season, because the GAC plays in a silo-schedule, i.e., the same 11 teams every year, Ouachita knows those teams tendencies very well. However, after compiling a 1-5 record, it is pretty clear that the Tigers struggle to prepare for teams they don’t see year-in & year-out. A couple of non-conference games against quality opponents every year would probably go a good ways towards helping to fix that problem.

4) Recruitment. Two-thirds (2/3rds) to Three-fourths (3/4ths) of every signing class for Ouachita comes from Arkansas. Arkansas has some great high school talent, but it doesn’t have enough talent to field a D2 PO-caliber D by using mostly Arkansas recruits, it just doesn't. I realize there may be a financial reason behind why Ouachita recruits this way, but at some point you either have to find a way to get it done or admit defeat and stop pretending to be a PO contender.


Okay, melt down by certain Ouachita fans is about to commence in T-minus 10 and counting...

P.S. feel free to agree/disagree in a civil manner.

P.S.S. if you act like a snowflake or cupcake, I'm gonna treat you like one.

I agree with the main concept, but think you may be reading too much into the statement. Almost all coaches talk about conf.champ being one of their goals.

Strongly agree with number 3.

Agree with number 4. I see 4 being the cause of 2, tbh. The problem with the defense appears to be more about personnel than philosophy, imo.

[D2Assassin]

first you have to correctly identify the offense and call it what it is. multiple formation double wing. theres a reason why double wing....scuse me "triple option" teams rarely exist in D1 football. because it's fairly easy to defend. with the right defensive attack.

It rarely exists because coaches can only coach what they know. Nobody has run true triple since Georgia tech and we see how far they’ve fallen since they stopped. Coaches are arrogant and always think their way is the best way. Also, everybody is running inside zone with RPOs now which is just veer triple.

and Harding runs flexbone. There’s only 2 formations. So it’s not “multiple formation double wing”

[Predatory Primates]

Who's Frank?

[jimbo slice]

thank you for your service

as they say at chick fila.... my pleasure

[codeblack]

thanks man. i have a good one every once in a while. As a fan of the team that practically invented the triple option in the early 1970s and won 3 national champions running it, i felt it my duty to straighten out the names of the two offenses.

thank you for your service

[jimbo slice]

I really enjoyed your post, Jimbo.

thanks man. i have a good one every once in a while. As a fan of the team that practically invented the triple option in the early 1970s and won 3 national champions running it, i felt it my duty to straighten out the names of the two offenses.

[Brandon]

I really enjoyed your post, Jimbo.

[jimbo slice]

You really meant to say “in theory.” Because in reality everyone thinks they know how to stop the triple option until it comes time to actually do it. Just like everyone knows how to stop the RPO or the air raid or you name it. I’m surprised Harding is able to win a single game with how easy it is to defend. NWMS and Ouachita excluded.

“it’s super easy guys, all you have to do is read the offensive scheme, execute your defensive assignments, make adjustments as necessary, and tackle the guy with the football before they get too far down the field!”

first you have to correctly identify the offense and call it what it is. multiple formation double wing. theres a reason why double wing....scuse me "triple option" teams rarely exist in D1 football. because it's fairly easy to defend. with the right defensive attack.

[codeblack]

In reality, every team, middle school up, knows how to beat option teams. Discipline and execution. When we played Triple Option teams (poorly), we always tackled the dive, the qb, and pitch. Whether they had the ball or not. Conceptually, not hard, but if you miss that tackle, your team doesn't have athletes, or you don't team tackle, it can go way south.

You really meant to say “in theory.” Because in reality everyone thinks they know how to stop the triple option until it comes time to actually do it. Just like everyone knows how to stop the RPO or the air raid or you name it. I’m surprised Harding is able to win a single game with how easy it is to defend. NWMS and Ouachita excluded.

“it’s super easy guys, all you have to do is read the offensive scheme, execute your defensive assignments, make adjustments as necessary, and tackle the guy with the football before they get too far down the field!”

[GorillaTeacher]

to be fair, UNK runs a VERY similar offense. it's not like NW has never had to play a team like Harding. anyone who has coached any amount of time will know how to beat a Harding team. it's just the execution. load the box (because it a very compressed formation) overpower them at the line and stay disciplined on the outside and You'll do well enough to keep them down on offense. once that happens, you just have to score at that point.
i know, easier said than done but the offense has hardly changed in 80 or so years and the way to stop it hasn't either. just execution.

it doesn't happen very often but, when a team manages to neutralize that offense, it's basically a war of attrition. which battering ram will give up first.

also of note...pulling lineman will surely take you to the ball. all about playing disciplined defense.

In reality, every team, middle school up, knows how to beat option teams. Discipline and execution. When we played Triple Option teams (poorly), we always tackled the dive, the qb, and pitch. Whether they had the ball or not. Conceptually, not hard, but if you miss that tackle, your team doesn't have athletes, or you don't team tackle, it can go way south.

[northwest missouri state]

to be fair, UNK runs a VERY similar offense. it's not like NW has never had to play a team like Harding. anyone who has coached any amount of time will know how to beat a Harding team. it's just the execution. load the box (because it a very compressed formation) overpower them at the line and stay disciplined on the outside and You'll do well enough to keep them down on offense. once that happens, you just have to score at that point.
i know, easier said than done but the offense has hardly changed in 80 or so years and the way to stop it hasn't either. just execution.

it doesn't happen very often but, when a team manages to neutralize that offense, it's basically a war of attrition. which battering ram will give up first.

also of note...pulling lineman will surely take you to the ball. all about playing disciplined defense.

the biggest problem is the one dimensional nature of their offense aw alluded to

lots of teams run option, nobody completes 27 passes in a season like hu did this yr playing them is like taking a trip back to the 70s.

there will always be a "nwms" otw to the title who can stop it. kearney throws it a lot more than harding does, it's comparatively viable although i don't really like what they do either, still not enough balance.

i liked your post, just needed something to reply to

[northwest missouri state]

After several years of watching Ouachita not get it done come PO time, here are my thoughts as to why Ouachita Baptist is 1-5 in the POs and will not likely have success in the playoffs anytime soon...

1) Portrayed Mentality/Outlook. Todd Knight said in an interview on Inside D2 Football show earlier this season that he believes National Championships come by winning Conference Championships first. That is demonstrably untrue because TAMUC in '17 & UWF in '19 won national titles, but did not win conference titles. Frankly, that kind of talk sounds like a team that in more interested in conference titles than national titles, or in other words is just happy to be in the playoffs as opposed to wanting to be a serious contender. Not a good look. HC shouldn't be talking about GAC titles when asked about what his team needs to do to improve their PO performance. He should be talking about what he's going to do to take that next step towards being a PO contender.

2) De facto Defensive Philosophy. The whole Bend-but-don't-break + Opportunistic style D doesn't work well in the POs, especially SR3, when combined with a Power Running O. Those kinds of defenses only work well in POs if a team is running a Spread, RPO, Air Raid+, etc., type offense. Also, during the regular season these kinds of defenses when used in a silo schedule can look like a dominating D when it is playing familiar weaker teams in conference play. Either Ouachita needs to change how they approach D or they need to change how they approach O.

3) Familiarity/Lack of Familiarity with opponents. As for regular season, because the GAC plays in a silo-schedule, i.e., the same 11 teams every year, Ouachita knows those teams tendencies very well. However, after compiling a 1-5 record, it is pretty clear that the Tigers struggle to prepare for teams they don’t see year-in & year-out. A couple of non-conference games against quality opponents every year would probably go a good ways towards helping to fix that problem.

4) Recruitment. Two-thirds (2/3rds) to Three-fourths (3/4ths) of every signing class for Ouachita comes from Arkansas. Arkansas has some great high school talent, but it doesn’t have enough talent to field a D2 PO-caliber D by using mostly Arkansas recruits, it just doesn't. I realize there may be a financial reason behind why Ouachita recruits this way, but at some point you either have to find a way to get it done or admit defeat and stop pretending to be a PO contender.


Okay, melt down by certain Ouachita fans is about to commence in T-minus 10 and counting...

P.S. feel free to agree/disagree in a civil manner.

P.S.S. if you act like a snowflake or cupcake, I'm gonna treat you like one.

it's point 4. you don't have the talent found in the top leagues. the rest is immaterial to the initial question. also disagree re: winning the league. just b/c you can find exceptions doesn't invalidate the point. if you go back most champions are also league champions, same as d1a, d1aa, d3, & the super bowl (wild card vs div winners) b/c more often than not the best team performs the best throughout the season.

[jimbo slice]

NattyStateFan to attempt to answer a couple of your questions.

1) Why does HU have their worst game against NW everytime? Simply put, NW is very good at defending what HU does offensively. I think HU needs to develop a supplemental pass game to go along with that rushing attack of theirs, if they are ever going to get past NW. In fairness to the Bisons, their Ds have been PO-caliber, they have outplayed FSU both times they played (though the series stands at 1-1) and in recent times have beat just about anybody they play not named NW--and even then, the last two games were no picnic for the Bearcats.

to be fair, UNK runs a VERY similar offense. it's not like NW has never had to play a team like Harding. anyone who has coached any amount of time will know how to beat a Harding team. it's just the execution. load the box (because it a very compressed formation) overpower them at the line and stay disciplined on the outside and You'll do well enough to keep them down on offense. once that happens, you just have to score at that point.
i know, easier said than done but the offense has hardly changed in 80 or so years and the way to stop it hasn't either. just execution.

it doesn't happen very often but, when a team manages to neutralize that offense, it's basically a war of attrition. which battering ram will give up first.

also of note...pulling lineman will surely take you to the ball. all about playing disciplined defense.