G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

[champgymusa]

Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

In this day and age of tight budgets I think every school has to do what is right for them...for some moving up might be right, for most moving down might be better...losing millions of dollars and having an average team at best seems like a bad plan to me. I think more people would be amazed at how much it really costs to even field a team correctly these days...everything has gone up other than attendance in many places. I think GVSU is where they are because of amazing leadership. At the end of the day most great programs start with a great leader. Just my opinion supported by NO MATH as is my new policy. Actually it has always been my policy.

[Irishlaker]

Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

That would be my assumption as well. Bigger name in-conference opponents, one FBS opponent per year in football, basketball and other sports competing at the top level. Yeah, we wouldn't be dominating our competition in every sport and winning Director's Cups every year like we do now, but I have seen a football program that had a 40 game win streak and 4 national championships turn into one with a lot more competition and losses and we still average 15-16,000 in the regular season. I think Laker pride is entrenched at this point and people show up to support the program in the good seasons and the bad.

Also, I was perusing the GVSU Master Plan and one of the items on there was a new arena, which would be nice. The current one is incredibly aged even with the new floor and scoreboards.

As I mentioned before, we have never averaged 15-16,000 in the regular season. Yes, we have a couple of big nights a year...the opener, Family Day if it's in September and we catch a high of 70+ that day, and anytime we play Ferris, Ashland, or Saggy prior to the mid-point of the season and we are both one-loss or less. Those nights are 15K+, but Wayne on the last day of the year and Northern when it starts to get cold out are usually 10K or so...and that's an inflated # vs. who is really there...students decline and a lot of the season-holders decide not to sit in the chill or perhaps some showers.

As for our ability to still draw that many after moving to D1 strictly on "Laker Pride"? Maybe that's true. Wouldn't speak absolutely to say it isn't. However, I would submit that if we start to struggle at all and we become perennially only a six/seven win team (certainly possible) the backing would wane/struggle at least some. Say what you want about our current state (I too have my concerns and reservations), we have only lost four regular season home games in the last nine years. People roll out to watch wins, and for the most part we still get plenty of'em.

As for the schedule, what "bigger name in-conference opponents" are we going to get? If we were lucky enough to get into the Ohio Valley, why would folks come in droves to see Eastern Kentucky or Jacksonville State? I would argue the FCS's notoriety isn't inherently/decidedly greater than that of D2...perhaps slightly, but nothing major. As for playing an FBS team once per year, that's ALWAYS going to be at their place so we can get our lunch handed to us and collect a check. If I want to go to any P5 school's stadium for a game I'm simply going to go and check it out. Would rather do that than roll in to watch my boys get stomped. Decidedly unappealing.

Sorry, Man. I LOVE that we are running at Director's Cups every year. I LOVE that we have academic calendars where EVERY sport makes the tournament. I LOVE that we have sports that are nationally relevant. To pay more money in facilities and annual expenses and give all that up had better have some overwhelmingly obvious benefit that the University simply couldn't do without for me to support giving up what we have.

If the NCAA restructures and/or the P5 split off and do their own thing, then I say we land where we land. Until then, D1 is about the haves and the have-nots. Much of the P5 are the haves, and everyone else is, well, you know. I like being a "have" right where we are.

[WVIAC-F-EVER]

Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

The cost of staffing between D1 compared to D2 is where the real cost shows up...

Football staff costing 900k now goes to $2.1 million...

[champgymusa]

Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

The cost of staffing between D1 compared to D2 is where the real cost shows up...

Football staff costing 900k now goes to $2.1 million...

Staffing is the tip of the iceberg....Travel, schollys, facilities...all $$$$$$

[bigmrg74]

Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

We've seen less able schools make the jump. I have no doubt that Grand Valley could if they wanted to in the near future. Donors are at an all-time high due to the school being a 20,000+ student school for over a decade along with them having an increased presence in the fabric of Grand Rapids. The master plan of the school seems to call for a new arena as the next big athletic project. The completion of that project could be the catalyst to upward mobility since it is the last athletics facility that really isn't up to D1 standards.

Yeah, the Arena would have to be upgraded for a D1 move. Ideally, if I hit the Lotto, it would include having an ice plant to have ice there as well. Really big Lotto, there would be two seperate arenas. :wink:

Also, I do think that GVSU's Pool would need to be upgraded as well. Lots of bells and whistles there that are likely sorely needed, like just having extra room for trainers, MT's, and whatever else support staff a team would bring in for a big meet.

And frankly right now there's not really a good fit for GVSU anywhere in D1-AA right now for GVSU. Sure, the Horizon League would take us in a heartbeat and would trip over themselves in getting us into their league. We would be well within their footprint with a decent airport to fly in and out of, plus we could probably talk the Van Andel arena into hosting their conference tournaments regularly. But they don't have football, and I don't believe than many of their members even field football currently. The Missouri Valley Football Conference would be an pretty good option to land the football team as they offer teams in Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Missouri, Iowa and the Dakotas to play and with it being home of NDSU, pretty much a top notch football conference. Just that travel in that league isn't going to be any better than the GLIAC currently, and we would either need to drag Wayne State with us or get the NCAA to boot one of the MAC schools down to D1-AA for not averaging 15,000 butts in the seats for a decade. Not really seeing where they would really want us other than some of our past history with UND and the dakota schools, but I don't think that their fans are really crying out to play us that much.

[WVIAC-F-EVER]

Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

GVSU can look how much $$$$$$$$$ money being lost by Eastern Michigan, Central Michigan, and Western Michigan as reasons not to go up...

[Irishlaker]

Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

GVSU can look how much $$$$$$$$$ money being lost by Eastern Michigan, Central Michigan, and Western Michigan as reasons not to go up...

NOW, we're getting somewhere...

[bigmrg74]

Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

GVSU can look how much $$$$$$$$$ money being lost by Eastern Michigan, Central Michigan, and Western Michigan as reasons not to go up...

EMU is probably the worst one. At least Central and Western they're the only game in town. EMU, you got a 800 pound gorilla just down the road from them that most of their students would rather go to for the most part. Plus whatever else they could go do in the Detroit metro area. Just not a lot of drive for the students there to go to a game, or to give back to the university. All pretty important when you need to keep money coming into the program.

[ftballfan]

Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

If any GLIAC school were to make the jump to D1, it would most likely be Parkside because they fit the three main characteristics of many of the public D2 to D1 jumps over the last two decades:
1. No football team
2. Founded after World War II
3. Primarily a commuter college

GVSU only fits #2.

Also, EMU should consider dropping to FCS or Division II.

[Dozsa2]

Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

Four NCC Dakota schools grades for moving to D1 to this point.

NDSU A
SDSU A
USD B
UND C

What is the reason behind why **most of** the Dakota schools have experienced success in their move up?

Omaha made the Division 1 baseball tournament and got some love Monday during the selection show from Kyle Peterson because, apparently, one of their players is his neighbor. That's pretty cool, but did that 10-15 seconds on Monday make it worth moving their entire athletic department to D1? And, correct me if I'm wrong, but Omaha dropped football when they went D1, did they not?

[WVIAC-F-EVER]

Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

Thought Omaha dropped football and wrestling to go D1?

Going D1 depends on league and location...

D2 schools in Northeast part of country have so much competition- so many schools at every level, that, being D1 gets you better looks from football, volleyball, and m/w basketball recruits...

[Irishlaker]

Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

Thought Omaha dropped football and wrestling to go D1?

Going D1 depends on league and location...

D2 schools in Northeast part of country have so much competition- so many schools at every level, that, being D1 gets you better looks from football, volleyball, and m/w basketball recruits...

They dropped football, and a wrestling program that was (if memory serves) only days removed from having won another National Championship. I don't live in Omaha, am not an alum, not on the staff, nor am I affiliated with that University in any way so I can't possibly know the inner workings of that whole deal. What I can tell you from where I sit is that I'm not aware of Omaha being some sort of power in anything at present. A quick interwebs search shows that Baseball won their conference this year, and along with their 2013 and 2014 league titles are the ONLY conference championships the school has since their 2011 transition do D1. One sport with any league titles in eight years for all of that extra investment? Doesn't sound all that great to me...

[laker]

Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

What is the reason behind why **most of** the Dakota schools have experienced success in their move up?

Omaha made the Division 1 baseball tournament and got some love Monday during the selection show from Kyle Peterson because, apparently, one of their players is his neighbor. That's pretty cool, but did that 10-15 seconds on Monday make it worth moving their entire athletic department to D1? And, correct me if I'm wrong, but Omaha dropped football when they went D1, did they not?

To expand the grades, I would say UNC (Northern Colorado) and UNO (Omaha)- also former NCC schools- would both get a D. To answer why the Dakota schools have fared so much better- support in those states is split between two schools- and they have no FBS schools in either. NDSU has been a football power since the 60s. UND is a hockey school. The two South Dakota schools tended to be basketball centered but since moving up SDSU has really ramped up on football. The facilities at all four have really improved. I've been to all four for games since they moved up and they have embraced the move. Donations are way up.

UNC used to be a football power. Now you never hear about them. You are correct about UNO- they dropped football. And they had just won their second national wrestling title in a row when the program got cut. On their way home the locks on the locker room were changed- they had to wait until someone let them in so they could be escorted inside. Administration evidently didn't have faith in their own wrestlers to behave themselves. The whole episode was not handled well.

[Dozsa2]

Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

To expand the grades, I would say UNC (Northern Colorado) and UNO (Omaha)- also former NCC schools- would both get a D. To answer why the Dakota schools have fared so much better- support in those states is split between two schools- and they have no FBS schools in either. NDSU has been a football power since the 60s. UND is a hockey school. The two South Dakota schools tended to be basketball centered but since moving up SDSU has really ramped up on football. The facilities at all four have really improved. I've been to all four for games since they moved up and they have embraced the move. Donations are way up.

UNC used to be a football power. Now you never hear about them. You are correct about UNO- they dropped football. And they had just won their second national wrestling title in a row when the program got cut. On their way home the locks on the locker room were changed- they had to wait until someone let them in so they could be escorted inside. Administration evidently didn't have faith in their own wrestlers to behave themselves. The whole episode was not handled well.

Thanks for the information. That Omaha history brings back bad memories for me. My junior (or senior) year we dropped wrestling due to Title IX a couple weeks after winning the conference title. We were D1 in wrestling and obviously hadn't just won the national championship, but knowing a few of those guys personally, it was tough.

[Brandon]

Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

To expand the grades, I would say UNC (Northern Colorado) and UNO (Omaha)- also former NCC schools- would both get a D. To answer why the Dakota schools have fared so much better- support in those states is split between two schools- and they have no FBS schools in either. NDSU has been a football power since the 60s. UND is a hockey school. The two South Dakota schools tended to be basketball centered but since moving up SDSU has really ramped up on football. The facilities at all four have really improved. I've been to all four for games since they moved up and they have embraced the move. Donations are way up.

UNC used to be a football power. Now you never hear about them. You are correct about UNO- they dropped football. And they had just won their second national wrestling title in a row when the program got cut. On their way home the locks on the locker room were changed- they had to wait until someone let them in so they could be escorted inside. Administration evidently didn't have faith in their own wrestlers to behave themselves. The whole episode was not handled well.

I think you're being kind to UNC. I think their move has been an F.