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  • #61
    https://www.news-herald.com/news/spo...19ae95fbe.html

    A newspaper article from 2009 that documents OH schools adding football, transitioning from NAIA (D3 in LEC's case) and working together to create an "All-Ohio" D2 Conference.


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    • #62
      Per the NDC AD: "We've had discussions about this for a couple of years,"

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      • #63
        Originally posted by BlueBlood View Post
        Per the NDC AD: "We've had discussions about this for a couple of years,"
        I would love to know what the current thought process is for NDC in regards to staying in the MEC over moving over to the GMAC. I know something happened in those early discussions that made NDC not want to be included with the founding GMAC schools, but the world will probably never know what.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by ESU Warrior View Post

          2008 - Gannon and 'Hurst to the PSAC. Do you think they were switching conferences to avoid GVSU, Ferris, and SVSU ? Or do you think they were switching to move to a more geographic centered conference?
          Made 100% sense to be in the PSAC.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by BlueBlood View Post
            Per the NDC AD: "We've had discussions about this for a couple of years,"
            Discussions about what? Discussions happen all the time and scenarios are discussed all the time.

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            • #66
              Brandon, the article is in the post right above it. The OH NAIA schools were planning to create an OH D2 conference.

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              • #67
                Holy Smokes! A real, live, burning thread in the GLIAC forum that I can't keep up with. Been a while since we've seen that! The topic in and of itself is a little heartbreaking, but I'm trying to find silver linings here.

                OK...trying to insinuate myself back into the proceedings, and I see one particular point someone made that needs to be cleared up and that surrounds Indianapolis. UIndy absolutely did NOT leave the GLIAC because they were slotted in the North Division. Nor, was their being in the North "stupidity" on the part of the league for putting them there. Let's break this down:

                - First of all, UIndy was only in the North for the 2010 and 2011 seasons. There were literally only two seasons that they were in that set-up.

                - UIndy announced their departure for the GLVC prior to the 2011 season. Obviously, they didn't find a way to get the GLVC to reconstitute itself to start offering football in roughly 12 or so months. As Brandon (and I believe Blueblood) astutely point out, schools are having discussions about stuff constantly, and it is likely only a fraction of the time that things actually come to fruition. In other words, most stuff takes a LONG time to make happen. One of the discussions that DID come to fruition was the GLVC offering football, and that had been discussed/in the works for YEARS prior to UIndy joining up. UIndy's GLIAC divisional placement may have "conveniently" offered an additional, perceived benefit to UIndy to depart, but it happened long after GLVC Football was in motion and in no way served as a catalyst. The GLIAC was in no way surprised by UIndy's announcement.

                - League By-Laws. As someone (I believe Blueblood again) noted, the GLVC's by-laws obligate its members to play their sports in that conference if the conference offers said sport. Hence, UIndy knew full well that once the GLVC was able to offer football they would be moving the sport to that league. No surprises, no hurt feelings, no vendettas. In fact, they also fulfilled their obligation to the GLIAC of announcing their intentions a year early. Furthermore, UIndy continued associate memberships in the GLIAC for at least a couple of other sports for quite some time AFTER football left. In fact, I believe they won a GLIAC Women's Lacrosse title as recently as 2019...and that sport has since shifted its play to the GLVC as a result of the league adding that sport to its offering. Why would UIndy continue to participate in the GLIAC for another eight or ten years if they were so bent about "how they were treated". Just doesn't line up.

                - The Why - Maybe should have started with this, but WHY the North? Very simple. At that point in time the GLIAC had 14 full-time members. One of those members, Lake Superior State, doesn't offer football. It was a very logical, simple solution to have UIndy fill Lake State's football "void" in the divisional alignment. Was it fair? Maybe not. Could the league have gotten a bit more creative about it? Perhaps. But let's be real, the premise of UIndy leaving for the GLVC at that point had to be viewed as imminent so all parties knew that the solution was as temporary as it was simple.

                - My last thought on this is in regards to the "fairness" of the arrangement, and the perceived "unfairness" that revolved around how much "extra travel" UIndy would have to do as a North member. Was it unfair to make them travel more? Perhaps...but just how much more did they have to travel, really? With two, seven-team divisions and a ten-game conference slate, GLIAC teams in 2010 and 2011 played all six of their division-mates (three home, three away), and four cross-overs (two home, two away). Even if they had been in the South, UIndy was still going to have two road-games against North teams. The reality is that they basically traded one, perceived "shorter" road trip for a single, perceived "longer" one each of those two seasons. I actually reviewed their schedules from those two years, and the only "crummy" straw they drew was going to the U.P. both seasons. With that said, the scheduling ideology of the league at that time would have created a scenario where South Teams were UP-bound at least once every 2nd or third year anyway. So, statistically they didn't end up going much more than they would have had they been in the South. And lastly, given that they had been playing at least one game in the UP nearly every year since joining the MIFC in 1993, this two year stretch was hardly anything earth-shattering.


                Sorry, Gang. There's a bunch of your life you won't get back having read that...don't worry, writing takes longer than reading so I'm the true loser in this equation.


                Beyond all of that, I agree with the posters who offer that the Ohio-centric conference was in the works for quite a while. I also agree that there are some logistical advantages for some of the schools that are more than obvious and are all but impossible to ignore.

                I absolutely believe that some of the schools who have left the league were in no way trying to "duck" anyone. Their performances on the fields/courts spoke for themselves. I also absolutely believe that at least some of the schools that left were seeking a perceived home with less rigor, and saw no longer having to play some GLIAC teams as a valuable (albeit unstated) fringe benefit.

                Back on topic, I still don't see what Northwood gets out of making this move. The geography/cost is worse, I don't foresee them being anymore competitive, and they will create recruiting and branding issues that don't exist presently. The premise that they "look like" the schools in the GMAC is inarguable, but is that truly the primary rationale that will drive this? Curious.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by BlueBlood View Post
                  Brandon, the article is in the post right above it. The OH NAIA schools were planning to create an OH D2 conference.
                  I have known about that desire for a long time. A "couple of years" sounded like a new development.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Tony Nicolette View Post
                    Back on topic, I still don't see what Northwood gets out of making this move. The geography/cost is worse, I don't foresee them being anymore competitive, and they will create recruiting and branding issues that don't exist presently. The premise that they "look like" the schools in the GMAC is inarguable, but is that truly the primary rationale that will drive this? Curious.
                    Totally agree. I will fully defend the OH schools that had long planned to create their own D2 conference. HC was different - but I can argue either side of them staying/going. Northwood is totally different - they are literally in the middle of the GLIAC footprint.

                    Also, I have stated before on the G-MAC thread that the G-MAC should not be overly greedy when it comes to GLIAC schools. The OH/MI split is one thing. Making moves that potentially destabilize a neighboring conference is totally different (especially a conference that is boxed in geographically like the GLIAC is). The G-MAC should want the GLIAC to remain healthy - and capable of sponsoring a full array of sports.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by BlueBlood View Post

                      Totally agree. I will fully defend the OH schools that had long planned to create their own D2 conference. HC was different - but I can argue either side of them staying/going. Northwood is totally different - they are literally in the middle of the GLIAC footprint.

                      Also, I have stated before on the G-MAC thread that the G-MAC should not be overly greedy when it comes to GLIAC schools. The OH/MI split is one thing. Making moves that potentially destabilize a neighboring conference is totally different (especially a conference that is boxed in geographically like the GLIAC is). The G-MAC should want the GLIAC to remain healthy - and capable of sponsoring a full array of sports.
                      You make an excellent point there, and I think it expands out to the GLVC too. If all three are healthy and sponsoring the majority of the same sports, it solves many out of conference scheduling issues, especially in football. You can get 2/3 of your schedule from your conference and easily fill in the rest with schools from the other two conferences.

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                      • #71
                        Can't wait until next year when we have the "Northwood's definitely going to the G-MAC this time " discussion, AGAIN. :D

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Brandon View Post

                          Made 100% sense to be in the PSAC.
                          That was my understanding. They weren't competing with the big dawgs, and Gannon is still a bottom feeder. Hurst has done well. I can not speak on many other schools because of my lack of knowledge, but I was told those two schools were vying for acceptance into the PSAC for years, but because they were private the PSAC said no until they lifted their mandate.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Scott Miles View Post

                            This is one of the few comments on this thread that makes any sense. I say that as a former athletic administrator at one of the schools who made the move from the GLIAC to the G-MAC. I feel comfortable saying that "access to the football playoffs" was not anywhere near the top of the conversations the university presidents were having, nor was "ducking tough competition." The announcement to make the move happened in June 2015. Six months earlier, ODU football finished the season ranked #4 in the country.
                            I have no reason to doubt you. I have had off the record conversations with decision makers in realignments who have said the opposite.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by ESU Warrior View Post

                              That was my understanding. They weren't competing with the big dawgs, and Gannon is still a bottom feeder. Hurst has done well. I can not speak on many other schools because of my lack of knowledge, but I was told those two schools were vying for acceptance into the PSAC for years, but because they were private the PSAC said no until they lifted their mandate.
                              It made complete sense. At the time, the hesitation was about bringing private schools into the PSAC. Luckily, logic prevailed.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by ESU Warrior View Post

                                That was my understanding. They weren't competing with the big dawgs, and Gannon is still a bottom feeder. Hurst has done well. I can not speak on many other schools because of my lack of knowledge, but I was told those two schools were vying for acceptance into the PSAC for years, but because they were private the PSAC said no until they lifted their mandate.
                                Crap I apologize. I didn't read the entire post and just now read that you address the issue of private schools.......

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