GLVC Additions to fill the Bellarmine spot

[michiganfb]

Re: GLVC Additions to fill the Bellarmine spot

With Bellarmine going D1, I think there is going to some more rumors of schools to move into the conference over the next year. With the possibility of Unidy and Lewis leaving as well, multiple teams could move in. Here is what could be a shortlist:

1. Oakland City - currently D2 independent, geographical fit, travel partner with USI, but very behind competitive wise in most sports
2. Lincoln - currently MIAA, was affliate member, but would be very hard to pry them away from MIAA as they have waited for many years for a full invite as I understand it.
3. Kentucky Wesleyan - current GMAC, former member, geogrpahic fit, travel partner with USI, but small step down competitive wise in football and some potential old bad blood with them leaving the conference orginally
4. Trevecca Nazarene - currently GMAC, and similar fit as KWC but geographic stretch
5. Various NAIA and D3 move options such as: Depauw, Wabash, Lindenwood-Belleville, Marian (if Uindy stays)

Thoughts? other expansion candidates?

Think Bellarmine is making a mistake. D1 basketball with no football still robs students of the best day in college each year - the fall homecoming game. Don't think Marian will go D2 - I think they'd be strong at first with their bunch of players that don't meet NCAA admission standards but that catches up with them after a couple years under NCAA standards. Also their rep for going after players kicked out of D1 programs - don't know what D2 conference wants to be a part of that. DePauw and Wabash would have to be a package deal - they have a good thing going with their rivalry. KWC needs to invest into football like they do basketball. I've talked to kids that like the area - the should be able to recruit Louisville and Evansville and Bowling Green kids. St Joe trying to get it going again - not anytime soon. Findlay might think GLVC basketball is attractive - U Indy would go for that but I'd rather see U Indy get into a GMAC conference with Hillsdale and OH Dominican along with Findlay.

[HeartOfGLVC]

Re: GLVC Additions to fill the Bellarmine spot

Under no circumstance will the GLVC approach Oakland City. The entire department is a laughing stock for being a member of DII.

I think Kentucky Wesleyan has a real shot of rejoining the league. Missouri Southern and the GLVC had a little mutual interest before it was decided SBU and Lindenwood would be invited, but I think it's time the league begins to focus on keeping UIndy and Southern Indiana happy. If another Missouri school is added to replace Bellarmine, the inevitable fate of UIndy to the G-MAC speeds up even more so with Bellarmine leaving.

I'd watch for a school near Chicago or KWC. It's been rumored for years about Marian jumping from NAIA to NCAA, but there's never been any steam.

[TSU_Mike59]

Re: GLVC Additions to fill the Bellarmine spot

I think it's time the league begins to focus on keeping UIndy and Southern Indiana happy.

This is a complete shot out there, but hear me out. The league continues to move further and further west. With 10 of its members west of the Mississippi River, what is the incentive to make UIndy and Southern Indiana happy? I 100% respect the fact that they were charter members of the league, but the GLVC is feeling the same way that the MIAA started to feel before Truman left. The league continued to move further and further west, gobbling up programs like Fort Hays State, Nebraska-Kearney, Central Oklahoma and Northeastern State. At some point, the MIAA just made the decision that Kansas City was going to be the center of the league, and that made it geographically (and budget-wise) irresponsible for Truman to continue in that league.

If UIndy decides to go to the GMAC? OK, fine, the GLVC can talk to Missouri Southern. If USI wants to go D1? OK, fine. I've always felt that a 12 or 14 team league is the perfect number for scheduling. The biggest thing will be replacing a school that leaves that has football with one that has football to help with conference scheduling.

But I think the writing is on the wall - - St. Louis is the "center" of the GLVC universe now, not Indianapolis anymore.

[Hornetfan]

Re: GLVC Additions to fill the Bellarmine spot

This is a complete shot out there, but hear me out. The league continues to move further and further west. With 10 of its members west of the Mississippi River, what is the incentive to make UIndy and Southern Indiana happy? I 100% respect the fact that they were charter members of the league, but the GLVC is feeling the same way that the MIAA started to feel before Truman left. The league continued to move further and further west, gobbling up programs like Fort Hays State, Nebraska-Kearney, Central Oklahoma and Northeastern State. At some point, the MIAA just made the decision that Kansas City was going to be the center of the league, and that made it geographically (and budget-wise) irresponsible for Truman to continue in that league.

If UIndy decides to go to the GMAC? OK, fine, the GLVC can talk to Missouri Southern. If USI wants to go D1? OK, fine. I've always felt that a 12 or 14 team league is the perfect number for scheduling. The biggest thing will be replacing a school that leaves that has football with one that has football to help with conference scheduling.

But I think the writing is on the wall - - St. Louis is the "center" of the GLVC universe now, not Indianapolis anymore.

Has there been any discussion of renaming the league? Kind of what the MIAA did when schools from outside Missouri entered the league.
I don't know if there is an actual Great Lakes Valley but according to a map I found from the Army Corps of Engineers it looks like only three (Lewis, Indy and USI) of the 16 core members are really in the Great Lakes Region.

[Inkblot]

Re: GLVC Additions to fill the Bellarmine spot

Has there been any discussion of renaming the league? Kind of what the MIAA did when schools from outside Missouri entered the league.
I don't know if there is an actual Great Lakes Valley but according to a map I found from the Army Corps of Engineers it looks like only three (Lewis, Indy and USI) of the 16 core members are really in the Great Lakes Region.

UIndy and USI leave. Remaining members rebrand as the Missouri-Illinois Athletic Association.

[Wabbott9]

Re: GLVC Additions to fill the Bellarmine spot

With Bellarmine going D1, I think there is going to some more rumors of schools to move into the conference over the next year. With the possibility of Unidy and Lewis leaving as well, multiple teams could move in. Here is what could be a shortlist:

1. Oakland City - currently D2 independent, geographical fit, travel partner with USI, but very behind competitive wise in most sports
2. Lincoln - currently MIAA, was affliate member, but would be very hard to pry them away from MIAA as they have waited for many years for a full invite as I understand it.
3. Kentucky Wesleyan - current GMAC, former member, geogrpahic fit, travel partner with USI, but small step down competitive wise in football and some potential old bad blood with them leaving the conference orginally
4. Trevecca Nazarene - currently GMAC, and similar fit as KWC but geographic stretch
5. Various NAIA and D3 move options such as: Depauw, Wabash, Lindenwood-Belleville, Marian (if Uindy stays)

Thoughts? other expansion candidates?

My thoughts:
1. Oakland City doesn't play enough of a D2 schedule for their joining any D2 conference, regardless of other considerations.
2. Kentucky Wesleyan had reasons for leaving. None of them have changed that I know of.
3. DePauw and Wabash would be a package deal, as they are traditional rivals. I'm skeptical, especially as Wabash is male-only; they would bring a kind of imbalance to the men's and women's sports.
4. Indianapolis (the city) is trying to get a Marian-UIndy rivalry going in football. As far as I am concerned, the proper football rival is Butler (but there's no way in every hell imagined by anyone anywhere Butler is leaving the Big East for the GLVC!). While UIndy might support Marian's candidacy, I doubt they get much more support, for reasons already mentioned in this thread.
5. If the expansion is not along the eastern edge of the conference, I'd be strongly for Lewis/UIndy/USI leaving for somewhere (GMAC, GLIAC, D1, anywhere really). Parkside is gone. Kentucky Wesleyan is gone. Northern Kentucky is gone. Bellarmine is leaving. St. Joe's is very gone. IPFW (now Purdue-Fort Wayne) is long gone. Purdue Northwest could have been a good geographic fit, but went GLIAC; I don't know if the GLVC was ever seriously an option for them.

When I was at UIndy in the '90's, the furthest west the conference went was UMSL and Quincy, and the former was a new addition. It was a predominately Indiana-Illinois-Kentucky conference, with a couple of close outliers. Now? It's a southern Illinois-Missouri conference. I can't imagine Uindy, USI, or Lewis wanting to join the GLVC in its current form.

Now, where to go? USI could go D1 the easiest, with a few different conference possibilities and no football program expenses. Lewis could do D1 as well, there being a couple of mid-major conferences that cover the Chicago area, and also the lack of football. They also would fit well in the GLIAC's footprint.

UIndy is probably the one most stuck. We'd be an outlier in the GMAC or the GLIAC, just as we are now in the GLVC. With football (and a successful program now!) our options for D1 are more limited. We're only in the footprint of the Missouri Valley (all state schools), Ohio Valley (really would be an outlier), and Pioneer (nationwide non-scholarship football!) leagues. The expenses involved would be serious.

My personal preferences would be for the GLIAC in D2 or the Missouri Valley in D1, but the GMAC is probably more realistic. Unfortunately, between St. Joe's closing and several eastern GLVC schools going D1, there's not a lot of D2 left around Indianapolis to work with. If the GLVC can't pull someone up in Indiana, Kentucky, or eastern Illinois, though, I think UIndy has to look at the GLVC and conclude they're just not interested in the eastern Midwest.

[HeartOfGLVC]

Re: GLVC Additions to fill the Bellarmine spot

My thoughts:
1. Oakland City doesn't play enough of a D2 schedule for their joining any D2 conference, regardless of other considerations.
2. Kentucky Wesleyan had reasons for leaving. None of them have changed that I know of.
3. DePauw and Wabash would be a package deal, as they are traditional rivals. I'm skeptical, especially as Wabash is male-only; they would bring a kind of imbalance to the men's and women's sports.
4. Indianapolis (the city) is trying to get a Marian-UIndy rivalry going in football. As far as I am concerned, the proper football rival is Butler (but there's no way in every hell imagined by anyone anywhere Butler is leaving the Big East for the GLVC!). While UIndy might support Marian's candidacy, I doubt they get much more support, for reasons already mentioned in this thread.
5. If the expansion is not along the eastern edge of the conference, I'd be strongly for Lewis/UIndy/USI leaving for somewhere (GMAC, GLIAC, D1, anywhere really). Parkside is gone. Kentucky Wesleyan is gone. Northern Kentucky is gone. Bellarmine is leaving. St. Joe's is very gone. IPFW (now Purdue-Fort Wayne) is long gone. Purdue Northwest could have been a good geographic fit, but went GLIAC; I don't know if the GLVC was ever seriously an option for them.

When I was at UIndy in the '90's, the furthest west the conference went was UMSL and Quincy, and the former was a new addition. It was a predominately Indiana-Illinois-Kentucky conference, with a couple of close outliers. Now? It's a southern Illinois-Missouri conference. I can't imagine Uindy, USI, or Lewis wanting to join the GLVC in its current form.

Now, where to go? USI could go D1 the easiest, with a few different conference possibilities and no football program expenses. Lewis could do D1 as well, there being a couple of mid-major conferences that cover the Chicago area, and also the lack of football. They also would fit well in the GLIAC's footprint.

UIndy is probably the one most stuck. We'd be an outlier in the GMAC or the GLIAC, just as we are now in the GLVC. With football (and a successful program now!) our options for D1 are more limited. We're only in the footprint of the Missouri Valley (all state schools), Ohio Valley (really would be an outlier), and Pioneer (nationwide non-scholarship football!) leagues. The expenses involved would be serious.

My personal preferences would be for the GLIAC in D2 or the Missouri Valley in D1, but the GMAC is probably more realistic. Unfortunately, between St. Joe's closing and several eastern GLVC schools going D1, there's not a lot of D2 left around Indianapolis to work with. If the GLVC can't pull someone up in Indiana, Kentucky, or eastern Illinois, though, I think UIndy has to look at the GLVC and conclude they're just not interested in the eastern Midwest.

To me, leaving the GLVC for the GLIAC doesn't make any sense. Travel would be greater - the UP is terrible. Besides, the current UIndy regime has a strong distaste for the conference after being a member in football and, most recently, women's lacrosse. There's a sense that the school is hated and treated as such, most likely it rivals that of Grand Valley and its prominence. I'm not saying UIndy has greater prominence that GVSU, but UIndy is obviously nothing to sneeze at.

In terms of travel, the G-MAC makes the most obvious sense. Hillsdale would probably line up as a travel partner, despite 200 miles separating the two. Between Hillsdale and Findlay, UIndy would easily become the best program in the league. UIndy has won 17 GLVC championships over the past two years (19 if you include their women's lacrosse titles in the GLIAC); can you imagine what it would be like in the G-MAC?

I'll concede that maybe the GLVC shouldn't make UIndy and USI a priority due to its constant expansion into St. Louis and the west. However, just as the rumors of Bellarmine (and USI) going D1, the talk of William Jewell and/or Quincy shutting down its athletic departments or dropping to D3 has been steady over the past couple years. What if the GLVC gets Marian to fill Bellarmine's spot, and then WJC/QU is magically gone from the league? Or both? Yes, there are options still out the western way for the GLVC to explore if it needs to. However, grabbing schools within only an hour or two of UIndy/USI seems like the most likely scenario. I'd be shocked if Missouri Southern (or the like) replaces Bellarmine. It could happen and I'm sure it's a definite possibility, but I'd be shocked.

That all being said, I think UIndy should stay in the GLVC for the foreseeable future. The travel is worth the better competition; the G-MAC is certainly improving, but would need at least one Ashland-type to partner with UIndy for it to attractive. If the new UIndy AD (coming in for 2020-21 academic year) is someone from the outside, everything I've said can be thrown out the window. If the hire stays in-house, I think we might be looking at UIndy as a long-term GLVC member who will help the GLVC remember it is the class of the league.

[Brandon]

Re: GLVC Additions to fill the Bellarmine spot

To me, leaving the GLVC for the GLIAC doesn't make any sense. Travel would be greater - the UP is terrible. Besides, the current UIndy regime has a strong distaste for the conference after being a member in football and, most recently, women's lacrosse. There's a sense that the school is hated and treated as such, most likely it rivals that of Grand Valley and its prominence. I'm not saying UIndy has greater prominence that GVSU, but UIndy is obviously nothing to sneeze at.

In terms of travel, the G-MAC makes the most obvious sense. Hillsdale would probably line up as a travel partner, despite 200 miles separating the two. Between Hillsdale and Findlay, UIndy would easily become the best program in the league. UIndy has won 17 GLVC championships over the past two years (19 if you include their women's lacrosse titles in the GLIAC); can you imagine what it would be like in the G-MAC?

I'll concede that maybe the GLVC shouldn't make UIndy and USI a priority due to its constant expansion into St. Louis and the west. However, just as the rumors of Bellarmine (and USI) going D1, the talk of William Jewell and/or Quincy shutting down its athletic departments or dropping to D3 has been steady over the past couple years. What if the GLVC gets Marian to fill Bellarmine's spot, and then WJC/QU is magically gone from the league? Or both? Yes, there are options still out the western way for the GLVC to explore if it needs to. However, grabbing schools within only an hour or two of UIndy/USI seems like the most likely scenario. I'd be shocked if Missouri Southern (or the like) replaces Bellarmine. It could happen and I'm sure it's a definite possibility, but I'd be shocked.

That all being said, I think UIndy should stay in the GLVC for the foreseeable future. The travel is worth the better competition; the G-MAC is certainly improving, but would need at least one Ashland-type to partner with UIndy for it to attractive. If the new UIndy AD (coming in for 2020-21 academic year) is someone from the outside, everything I've said can be thrown out the window. If the hire stays in-house, I think we might be looking at UIndy as a long-term GLVC member who will help the GLVC remember it is the class of the league.

I hate to speak for them, but I don't think there's a single person at GVSU that believes they would be rivaled by UIndy. I have been to both places and view UIndy as much closer to Ferris or Saginaw than to GVSU. If that is the perception of those at UIndy they should feel free to dismiss those thoughts.

I think the Quincy and William Jewell situations should be followed closely.

Missouri Southern would be more likely to go south to the GAC if it ever felt it needed to leave the MIAA.

[UFOILERFAN]

Re: GLVC Additions to fill the Bellarmine spot

To me, leaving the GLVC for the GLIAC doesn't make any sense. Travel would be greater - the UP is terrible. Besides, the current UIndy regime has a strong distaste for the conference after being a member in football and, most recently, women's lacrosse. There's a sense that the school is hated and treated as such, most likely it rivals that of Grand Valley and its prominence. I'm not saying UIndy has greater prominence that GVSU, but UIndy is obviously nothing to sneeze at.

In terms of travel, the G-MAC makes the most obvious sense. Hillsdale would probably line up as a travel partner, despite 200 miles separating the two. Between Hillsdale and Findlay, UIndy would easily become the best program in the league. UIndy has won 17 GLVC championships over the past two years (19 if you include their women's lacrosse titles in the GLIAC); can you imagine what it would be like in the G-MAC?

I'll concede that maybe the GLVC shouldn't make UIndy and USI a priority due to its constant expansion into St. Louis and the west. However, just as the rumors of Bellarmine (and USI) going D1, the talk of William Jewell and/or Quincy shutting down its athletic departments or dropping to D3 has been steady over the past couple years. What if the GLVC gets Marian to fill Bellarmine's spot, and then WJC/QU is magically gone from the league? Or both? Yes, there are options still out the western way for the GLVC to explore if it needs to. However, grabbing schools within only an hour or two of UIndy/USI seems like the most likely scenario. I'd be shocked if Missouri Southern (or the like) replaces Bellarmine. It could happen and I'm sure it's a definite possibility, but I'd be shocked.

That all being said, I think UIndy should stay in the GLVC for the foreseeable future. The travel is worth the better competition; the G-MAC is certainly improving, but would need at least one Ashland-type to partner with UIndy for it to attractive. If the new UIndy AD (coming in for 2020-21 academic year) is someone from the outside, everything I've said can be thrown out the window. If the hire stays in-house, I think we might be looking at UIndy as a long-term GLVC member who will help the GLVC remember it is the class of the league.

Wow, Indy's so good it's amazing any league would try to compete with them.

[sbkbghockey]

[bigsig50]

Re: GLVC Additions to fill the Bellarmine spot

Great insight and spot on regarding the philosophical differences. You'd be hard pressed to find more than a handful of D3 institutions itching to move to D2.

[Brandon]

Re: GLVC Additions to fill the Bellarmine spot

Their new stadium is beautiful.

[Grizzled LU]

Re: GLVC Additions to fill the Bellarmine spot

Their new stadium is beautiful.

That actually DOES look like a proper D2 facility.

[Brandon]

Re: GLVC Additions to fill the Bellarmine spot

That actually DOES look like a proper D2 facility.

With plenty of room for expansion if needed.

[Randy]

Re: GLVC Additions to fill the Bellarmine spot

The only MIAA schools that offer the required sports for the GLVC (now that Baptist & Lindenwood are gone) are Hays and Newman. Those 2 along with Northeastern & Rogers are the only schools to offer men's soccer and Northeastern & Rogers don't offer volleyball.