Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Inter-conference Match-up Proposal

Collapse

Support The Site!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Inter-conference Match-up Proposal

    I'd like to see the MIAA and GAC conferences work out a way to have teams play each other every year. Arkansas and Oklahoma are close in proximity to allow fairly easy travel for all teams and GAC puts out a fairly competitive product, certainly at the top of their conference anyway. Both have 12 teams and only play intra-conference games hampering the playoff selection committee and strength of schedule numbers. This is my proposal (and I'm basically prepared to be ridiculed).

    The decision on which teams play each other inter-conference is made by the standings the prior year matching up across the standings. The matchups hold for two years so the teams meet in a home-and-away scenario. The decision about who they don't play in conference is also based on standings in reverse order, top does not play bottom for two years. So I am starting with the standings of 2017, the whole thing would reset from the standings at the end of 2019, 2021, 2023, etc. In this proposal, starting this year

    -Fort Hays would play Ouachita Baptist in 2018 and 2019. Fort Hays would not play Missouri Southern those two years and Ouachita would not play East Central. Mo So and East Central would play each other twice.
    -Northwestern would play Harding in 2018 and 2019. Northwestern would not play NEO State those two years and Harding would not play Oklahoma Baptist. NEO State and Oklahoma Baptist would play each other twice.
    -Central Missouri would play Arky Tech in 2018 and 2019. Central Missouri would not play Kearney those two years and Arky Tech would not play SW Ok. St. Kearney and SW Ok. St. would play each other twice.
    -Pitt St. would play Southern Arky in 2018 and 2019. Pitt St. would not play Lindenwood those two years and Southern Arky would not play Southern Naz. Lindenwood and Southern Naz. would play each other twice.
    -Central O. would play SE Ok St. in 2018 and 2019. Central O. would not play Mo Western those two years and SE Ok St. would not play NW Ok. St. Mo Western and NW Ok. St. would play each other twice.
    -Emporia St. would play Henderson St. in 2018 and 2019. Emporia St. would not play Washburn those two years and Henderson St. would not play Ark-Mont. Washburn and Ark-Mont. would play each other twice.

    With just one out of conference game the scheduling would be pretty straight forward. i would recommend playing 5 conference games to start the season, then week 6 is the inter-conference game for every team then finish the season with 5 conference games.
    My thinking as far as using the standings is pretty straight forward, I believe teams tend to trend in their location over a couple years. Top teams tend to stay at the top and bottom teams at the bottom. So it doesn't necessarily hurt your best returning teams FHSU, NW Mo, Central Mo in this case if they actually lose in season to a top team from the other conference. And it certainly helps if they win those games. Likewise your bottom teams tend to take multiple years to dig themselves out of the bottom, but in this proposal at least you give the bottom teams a chance to chalk one up in the victory side by taking on a like bottom team from the other conference instead of taking a huge L by avoiding having to play the top teams for a couple years. The middle tier teams get to play the top teams in conference still to try and move up, play the bottom teams to keep their record polished and play a like middle tier across the other conference which could bolster their resume. I also don't think missing 1 conference game is going to upset the balance of how the standings would play out. The proposal is also straightforward for the athletic directors - they don't really have to worry about (or negotiate) who to schedule because it's decided by the standings.
    Finally, I think it's good for fans and D2 football to see some of these other teams play each other. Yes, it would mean setting aside some rivals for a few years sometimes, like Emporia vs. Washburn in the current scenario. But at the same time are we really that interested in seeing NW Mo take on NEO St. (that's not a rivalry) and not get to see them take on Harding for a couple years. I think in this proposal you'd see, especially at the top of the conferences, teams that have meet in the playoffs in the past become rivals. I think it also helps make even meaningless games at the end of the season have a purpose. You'll want to finish as high in the conference standings so going into the next couple years your schedule is likely to be increased by getting a slightly higher cross conference opponent.

  • #2
    Re: Inter-conference Match-up Proposal

    It would work, but would essentially reward weak teams and punish strong ones.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Inter-conference Match-up Proposal

      Originally posted by Predatory Primates View Post
      It would work, but would essentially reward weak teams and punish strong ones.
      Yes, that could be a negative. Or the MIAA could show there are no weak teams :smile-big:

      Here's how it would look, every team currently has an opponents record of 66-66 or .500; so using my proposal the opponents records would look like this next year

      FHSU 75 57 132 0.568
      NW Mo 73 59 132 0.553
      UCM 71 61 132 0.538
      UCO 69 63 132 0.523
      PSU 69 63 132 0.523
      WU 66 66 132 0.500
      ESU 66 66 132 0.500
      LU 64 68 132 0.485
      MWSU 63 69 132 0.477
      UNK 61 71 132 0.462
      NEO 59 73 132 0.447
      MSU 57 75 132 0.432

      It certainly does, as you say, reward the lower teams and in a way punish the top teams. But it doesn't, IMO, throw things way out of wack. No team rises above 60% opponents winning schedule and no team falls below 40% opponent winning schedule.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Inter-conference Match-up Proposal

        I see three problems, one of which you addressed.
        1. I don't think you should base two years of scheduling off of one year's standings. For example Emporia State went 10-2, 9-2 in 2012-13, then went 4-7 when Wilson was hurt in 2014, then went 11-3, 11-2 in 2015-16 before going 6-5 in 2017. Conversely UCO was 2-8 in both 2012 and 2013, went 8-4, 7-5 in 2014-15, then 3-8 in 2016 and back to 8-4 in 2017. I think you need to look at two or three years worth of results rather than just one season so any fluke year - good or bad - is taken into account.
        2. How do you break ties? Each year from 2013-16 there was a three-way tie at some point in the standings. Not to mention you could have ties between teams that didn't play each other and matched the results against their common opponents.
        3. You have to let natural rivals play every year. The Turnpike Tussle is one of the best attended games of the year for both ESU and WU - especially if you consider that it has been a late season game for the last several years which in the MIAA traditionally means lower attendance as it gets colder. I think the same is true for MWSU against NWMSU and MSSU against Pitt State (at least for the Griffons and Lions). So to take away a game that is going to be less than an hour's drive for the most part, in order to play a team that could be 12 hours away (think St. Joe to Monticello, Ark.) just doesn't make sense.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Inter-conference Match-up Proposal

          Originally posted by Hornetfan View Post
          3. You have to let natural rivals play every year. The Turnpike Tussle is one of the best attended games of the year for both ESU and WU - especially if you consider that it has been a late season game for the last several years which in the MIAA traditionally means lower attendance as it gets colder. I think the same is true for MWSU against NWMSU and MSSU against Pitt State (at least for the Griffons and Lions). So to take away a game that is going to be less than an hour's drive for the most part, in order to play a team that could be 12 hours away (think St. Joe to Monticello, Ark.) just doesn't make sense.
          I very much agree with this point and even when I discuss having two non-conference games. Every thought I have is all about keeping things interesting. Hope I can explain it clearly enough. I'm trying to repeat the moments of excitement that I have felt in the past. This would be my view of an ideal season.

          Awesome to start the season and to see new teams....

          G1. Non-Conference Game
          G2. Non-Conference Game

          Now it's awesome to start the conference schedule. For those teams that might have lost both games, it's a time to reset and focus on the conference standings. In some ways it's the same way teams in basketball conference tournament play feel about their second chance. These games could be against non-rival opponents. For instance, ESU v. Missouri Southern, Missouri Western, and Lindenwood.

          G3. Conference Game
          G4. Conference Game
          G5. Conference Game

          Secondary Rival. I imagine for Emporia it would be a team like Pitt or Hays. For Northwest it would be Central or Pitt.

          G6. Secondary Rival

          Back to the grind of the conference schedule

          G7. Conference Game
          G8. Conference Game

          I think week 9 is a great time to play THE rival.

          G9. Primary Rival

          And for those in contention, it's a drive toward the playoffs.

          G10. Conference Game
          G11. Conference Game

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Inter-conference Match-up Proposal

            Originally posted by Hornetfan View Post
            I see three problems, one of which you addressed.
            1. I think you need to look at two or three years worth of results rather than just one season so any fluke year - good or bad - is taken into account.
            2. How do you break ties?
            3. You have to let natural rivals play every year.
            1. I would tend to agree, honestly I didn't want to try to do the math to look at a multi year schedule and how that would match teams up. I wanted the simplest approach first - it's kind of built on the same idea the state takes in reclassifying districts every two years. And I would only consider a multi year approach to schedule as long as it takes the athletic directors out of deciding which teams play.
            2. In general I don't see the real need to break ties. (especially if you go to a multi year standings approach). As long as the teams have played the winner is the tie breaker. If they haven't matched up, I don't see where it makes much of a difference because the selection committee for the playoffs isn't really concerned where you actually place in conference. Otherwise, if conferences really want to make sure they break ties, I think there is a number of ways they could do it, all conferences kind of have there own rules regarding this anyway.
            3. No they don't :wink: Okay, I'm a bit non-traditionalist, I personally don't feel the need that rivals play every year. I think it's more important to figure out a way to get a non-conference game into the schedule than try to keep a lineage game going. But, I respect the idea of rivals; so i'm not fully opposed to having each team keep one natural rival game.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Brandon View Post
              I very much agree with this point and even when I discuss having two non-conference games. Every thought I have is all about keeping things interesting. Hope I can explain it clearly enough. I'm trying to repeat the moments of excitement that I have felt in the past. This would be my view of an ideal season.

              Awesome to start the season and to see new teams....

              G1. Non-Conference Game
              G2. Non-Conference Game

              Now it's awesome to start the conference schedule. For those teams that might have lost both games, it's a time to reset and focus on the conference standings. In some ways it's the same way teams in basketball conference tournament play feel about their second chance. These games could be against non-rival opponents. For instance, ESU v. Missouri Southern, Missouri Western, and Lindenwood.

              G3. Conference Game
              G4. Conference Game
              G5. Conference Game

              Secondary Rival. I imagine for Emporia it would be a team like Pitt or Hays. For Northwest it would be Central or Pitt.

              G6. Secondary Rival

              Back to the grind of the conference schedule

              G7. Conference Game
              G8. Conference Game

              I think week 9 is a great time to play THE rival.

              G9. Primary Rival

              And for those in contention, it's a drive toward the playoffs.

              G10. Conference Game
              G11. Conference Game

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Inter-conference Match-up Proposal

                Originally posted by EveryCatAWildman View Post
                I'd like to see the MIAA and GAC conferences work out a way to have teams play each other every year. Arkansas and Oklahoma are close in proximity to allow fairly easy travel for all teams and GAC puts out a fairly competitive product, certainly at the top of their conference anyway. Both have 12 teams and only play intra-conference games hampering the playoff selection committee and strength of schedule numbers. This is my proposal (and I'm basically prepared to be ridiculed).

                The decision on which teams play each other inter-conference is made by the standings the prior year matching up across the standings. The matchups hold for two years so the teams meet in a home-and-away scenario. The decision about who they don't play in conference is also based on standings in reverse order, top does not play bottom for two years. So I am starting with the standings of 2017, the whole thing would reset from the standings at the end of 2019, 2021, 2023, etc. In this proposal, starting this year

                -Fort Hays would play Ouachita Baptist in 2018 and 2019. Fort Hays would not play Missouri Southern those two years and Ouachita would not play East Central. Mo So and East Central would play each other twice.
                -Northwestern would play Harding in 2018 and 2019. Northwestern would not play NEO State those two years and Harding would not play Oklahoma Baptist. NEO State and Oklahoma Baptist would play each other twice.
                -Central Missouri would play Arky Tech in 2018 and 2019. Central Missouri would not play Kearney those two years and Arky Tech would not play SW Ok. St. Kearney and SW Ok. St. would play each other twice.
                -Pitt St. would play Southern Arky in 2018 and 2019. Pitt St. would not play Lindenwood those two years and Southern Arky would not play Southern Naz. Lindenwood and Southern Naz. would play each other twice.
                -Central O. would play SE Ok St. in 2018 and 2019. Central O. would not play Mo Western those two years and SE Ok St. would not play NW Ok. St. Mo Western and NW Ok. St. would play each other twice.
                -Emporia St. would play Henderson St. in 2018 and 2019. Emporia St. would not play Washburn those two years and Henderson St. would not play Ark-Mont. Washburn and Ark-Mont. would play each other twice.

                With just one out of conference game the scheduling would be pretty straight forward. i would recommend playing 5 conference games to start the season, then week 6 is the inter-conference game for every team then finish the season with 5 conference games.
                My thinking as far as using the standings is pretty straight forward, I believe teams tend to trend in their location over a couple years. Top teams tend to stay at the top and bottom teams at the bottom. So it doesn't necessarily hurt your best returning teams FHSU, NW Mo, Central Mo in this case if they actually lose in season to a top team from the other conference. And it certainly helps if they win those games. Likewise your bottom teams tend to take multiple years to dig themselves out of the bottom, but in this proposal at least you give the bottom teams a chance to chalk one up in the victory side by taking on a like bottom team from the other conference instead of taking a huge L by avoiding having to play the top teams for a couple years. The middle tier teams get to play the top teams in conference still to try and move up, play the bottom teams to keep their record polished and play a like middle tier across the other conference which could bolster their resume. I also don't think missing 1 conference game is going to upset the balance of how the standings would play out. The proposal is also straightforward for the athletic directors - they don't really have to worry about (or negotiate) who to schedule because it's decided by the standings.
                Finally, I think it's good for fans and D2 football to see some of these other teams play each other. Yes, it would mean setting aside some rivals for a few years sometimes, like Emporia vs. Washburn in the current scenario. But at the same time are we really that interested in seeing NW Mo take on NEO St. (that's not a rivalry) and not get to see them take on Harding for a couple years. I think in this proposal you'd see, especially at the top of the conferences, teams that have meet in the playoffs in the past become rivals. I think it also helps make even meaningless games at the end of the season have a purpose. You'll want to finish as high in the conference standings so going into the next couple years your schedule is likely to be increased by getting a slightly higher cross conference opponent.
                I could be mistaken, but I believe Armo Wood suggested two 'cross-over' GAC vs. MIAA teams a year or two ago as a way to snap the silo scheduling scheme of both leagues (though, that thread seemed to be lost to the purges of years past). That said, rather than base it by standings, as you've suggested, perhaps the pairings for a hypothetical two-game inter-conference series could be based on geographic travel partners (ie. Pitt State/MoSo and Harding/Arkansas Tech).
                Cal U (Pa.) Class of 2014

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Inter-conference Match-up Proposal

                  Originally posted by Brandon View Post
                  I very much agree with this point and even when I discuss having two non-conference games. Every thought I have is all about keeping things interesting. Hope I can explain it clearly enough. I'm trying to repeat the moments of excitement that I have felt in the past. This would be my view of an ideal season.

                  Awesome to start the season and to see new teams....

                  G1. Non-Conference Game
                  G2. Non-Conference Game

                  Now it's awesome to start the conference schedule. For those teams that might have lost both games, it's a time to reset and focus on the conference standings. In some ways it's the same way teams in basketball conference tournament play feel about their second chance. These games could be against non-rival opponents. For instance, ESU v. Missouri Southern, Missouri Western, and Lindenwood.

                  G3. Conference Game
                  G4. Conference Game
                  G5. Conference Game

                  Secondary Rival. I imagine for Emporia it would be a team like Pitt or Hays. For Northwest it would be Central or Pitt.

                  G6. Secondary Rival

                  Back to the grind of the conference schedule

                  G7. Conference Game
                  G8. Conference Game

                  I think week 9 is a great time to play THE rival.

                  G9. Primary Rival

                  And for those in contention, it's a drive toward the playoffs.

                  G10. Conference Game
                  G11. Conference Game
                  Brandon, I really like this set up. Great for the teams and their fans.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Inter-conference Match-up Proposal

                    Originally posted by PSR View Post
                    Brandon, I really like this set up. Great for the teams and their fans.
                    Thanks PSR. Alabama and Tennessee get to play the same weekend every year. I'm sure the MIAA schedule could be manipulated in much of the same manner.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Inter-conference Match-up Proposal

                      I get the convenience, and it is better than no OOC games, but does it help selections and SOS? True, it won't be .500, but limiting play to one other conference, IMO, doesn't do all that much to help measure the strength of any team. Again, it's better than nothing, and it would indeed result in some number SOS differential. I guess I see this more as a means to have different SOS numbers as opposed to a means to determine the strength or weakness of teams.

                      And I do get that money is an issue, but this would also prevent both conferences from scheduling unique teams along the way.
                      Still, if it's this vs what currently is in place? Sign me up.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Inter-conference Match-up Proposal

                        Originally posted by Redwing View Post
                        I get the convenience, and it is better than no OOC games, but does it help selections and SOS? True, it won't be .500, but limiting play to one other conference, IMO, doesn't do all that much to help measure the strength of any team. Again, it's better than nothing, and it would indeed result in some number SOS differential. I guess I see this more as a means to have different SOS numbers as opposed to a means to determine the strength or weakness of teams.

                        And I do get that money is an issue, but this would also prevent both conferences from scheduling unique teams along the way.
                        Still, if it's this vs what currently is in place? Sign me up.
                        My assumption is that the NSIC would be involved as well. They are the conference most open to changing the schedule.

                        It would be cool to include unique teams as well. I would remove the regional opponents criteria and simply make sure that D2 schools are playing D2 schools, no matter where they are from.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Inter-conference Match-up Proposal

                          Originally posted by Brandon View Post
                          My assumption is that the NSIC would be involved as well. They are the conference most open to changing the schedule.

                          It would be cool to include unique teams as well. I would remove the regional opponents criteria and simply make sure that D2 schools are playing D2 schools, no matter where they are from.
                          No argument here. On the surface, it sounds so straightforward. I may forever never understand why the NCAA (AD's/Presidents??) do what they do.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Inter-conference Match-up Proposal

                            I like the idea of non cons, but absolutely hate having a conference where everyone doesn't play everyone. That leads to a ****show where an inferior team makes the playoffs over a better team more often than not.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Inter-conference Match-up Proposal

                              Originally posted by Predatory Primates View Post
                              I like the idea of non cons, but absolutely hate having a conference where everyone doesn't play everyone. That leads to a ****show where an inferior team makes the playoffs over a better team more often than not.
                              How so?

                              Comment

                              Ad3

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X