OT: Former LSC Teams That Became D1 Juggernauts

[WT_TKW]

After I looked over the barren Commerce softball roster, I took a look at their football schedule. Jake had mentioned 2 teams that are on the schedule that should be laughers (Lincoln and North American). However I don't remember Houston Baptist being mentioned, and they play TWICE. HBU was 0-11 last year which is probably not that much worse than normal. So Commerce should have a minimum of 4 wins to brag about in their first year.

Not bad, considering when I look at the WT schedule, I am pretty sure we will defeat WNMU and SFU, but I wouldn't bet more than $1 on either game. I see Adams State only won 1 game last year but Hughes teams are notoriously slow starters, at least for D2 opponents, so I am not betting on that one.

[Buffalo/Islander Alum]

After I looked over the barren Commerce softball roster, I took a look at their football schedule. Jake had mentioned 2 teams that are on the schedule that should be laughers (Lincoln and North American). However I don't remember Houston Baptist being mentioned, and they play TWICE. HBU was 0-11 last year which is probably not that much worse than normal. So Commerce should have a minimum of 4 wins to brag about in their first year.

Not bad, considering when I look at the WT schedule, I am pretty sure we will defeat WNMU and SFU, but I wouldn't bet more than $1 on either game. I see Adams State only won 1 game last year but Hughes teams are notoriously slow starters, at least for D2 opponents, so I am not betting on that one.

Not looking into history before 1980 but I think the easiest answer is Sam Houston state winning the D1 FCS football championship. I think they also made a super regional in baseball a few years ago beating Tech on the Regional round and blowing a lead to Florida State in the super regional round. Not sure if a former basketball team has made the sweet 16 in basketball. I think SFA and ACU have made the round of 32.

[LionFan]

After I looked over the barren Commerce softball roster, I took a look at their football schedule. Jake had mentioned 2 teams that are on the schedule that should be laughers (Lincoln and North American). However I don't remember Houston Baptist being mentioned, and they play TWICE. HBU was 0-11 last year which is probably not that much worse than normal. So Commerce should have a minimum of 4 wins to brag about in their first year.

Not bad, considering when I look at the WT schedule, I am pretty sure we will defeat WNMU and SFU, but I wouldn't bet more than $1 on either game. I see Adams State only won 1 game last year but Hughes teams are notoriously slow starters, at least for D2 opponents, so I am not betting on that one.

One of those HBU games will be substituted with Incarnate Word since they have decided not to join the WAC after all. And Lamar is coming back to the Southland next year (which won't be called the Southland even as soon as this year)

[LionFan]

In terms of "juggernauts", I think there's only a handful of juggernauts at any level. Are you talking FCS? Sam Houston just won a National Championship. Some of the others have progressed past FCS and into FBS. The ones who have moved up seem to have progressed much further as a University than the ones that have stayed. Not including new movers (Tarleton)

University of Houston - Just accepted into the Big 12, has had a Heisman Trophy winner, etc
UNT - FBS
Sam Houston - FCS National Champs, now FBS
Stephen F Austin - FCS, a couple of nice runs in March Madness, playoffs last season
Incarnate Word - already in the FCS playoffs
ACU - Beat UT in March Madness
Texas State - FBS

Those are just the ones I can remember off the top of my head. It always drove me insane when people would wear the "Commerce is a charter member of the LSC, since Day 1". That's embarassing. There's nothing wrong with the LSC, everyone here knows I've always loved the conference. But sitting in one place and watching your peers blow past you over an entire century, and putting themselves in the positions I listed above while we sit around and pretend to be proud of not being proactive and pushing for something bigger should be embarassing. Luckily we've finally got things in place to try and step out of our comfort zones and take a risk. It's not about being a juggernaut, it's about making sure when we finish the next century, we don't look back and find ourselves still standing in the same place.

I honestly don't mean this as a shot at anyone, I'm just thinking out loud, I think the only place moving up DIDN'T work out in Texas is at WT.

[WT_TKW]

In terms of "juggernauts", I think there's only a handful of juggernauts at any level. Are you talking FCS? Sam Houston just won a National Championship. Some of the others have progressed past FCS and into FBS. The ones who have moved up seem to have progressed much further as a University than the ones that have stayed. Not including new movers (Tarleton)

University of Houston - Just accepted into the Big 12, has had a Heisman Trophy winner, etc
UNT - FBS
Sam Houston - FCS National Champs, now FBS
Stephen F Austin - FCS, a couple of nice runs in March Madness, playoffs last season
Incarnate Word - already in the FCS playoffs
ACU - Beat UT in March Madness
Texas State - FBS

Those are just the ones I can remember off the top of my head. It always drove me insane when people would wear the "Commerce is a charter member of the LSC, since Day 1". That's embarassing. There's nothing wrong with the LSC, everyone here knows I've always loved the conference. But sitting in one place and watching your peers blow past you over an entire century, and putting themselves in the positions I listed above while we sit around and pretend to be proud of not being proactive and pushing for something bigger should be embarassing. Luckily we've finally got things in place to try and step out of our comfort zones and take a risk. It's not about being a juggernaut, it's about making sure when we finish the next century, we don't look back and find ourselves still standing in the same place.

I honestly don't mean this as a shot at anyone, I'm just thinking out loud, I think the only place moving up DIDN'T work out in Texas is at WT.

I am just joking when I refer to Tarleton, ACU, IW, etc as "juggernauts". They are pretty average D1 teams whose records are inflated by playing joke teams. They do get nice paydays for being knocked around by good teams though.

WT was always D1 until the 80s.

[JavsFan]

In terms of "juggernauts", I think there's only a handful of juggernauts at any level. Are you talking FCS? Sam Houston just won a National Championship. Some of the others have progressed past FCS and into FBS. The ones who have moved up seem to have progressed much further as a University than the ones that have stayed. Not including new movers (Tarleton)

University of Houston - Just accepted into the Big 12, has had a Heisman Trophy winner, etc
UNT - FBS
Sam Houston - FCS National Champs, now FBS
Stephen F Austin - FCS, a couple of nice runs in March Madness, playoffs last season
Incarnate Word - already in the FCS playoffs
ACU - Beat UT in March Madness
Texas State - FBS

Those are just the ones I can remember off the top of my head. It always drove me insane when people would wear the "Commerce is a charter member of the LSC, since Day 1". That's embarassing. There's nothing wrong with the LSC, everyone here knows I've always loved the conference. But sitting in one place and watching your peers blow past you over an entire century, and putting themselves in the positions I listed above while we sit around and pretend to be proud of not being proactive and pushing for something bigger should be embarassing. Luckily we've finally got things in place to try and step out of our comfort zones and take a risk. It's not about being a juggernaut, it's about making sure when we finish the next century, we don't look back and find ourselves still standing in the same place.

I honestly don't mean this as a shot at anyone, I'm just thinking out loud, I think the only place moving up DIDN'T work out in Texas is at WT.

Hardin Simmons and Trinity used to be D1. They seem to be doing okay.


According to SFA's budget, Revenues from ticket sales game guarantees, NCAA revenues and concessions, will total less than $1.6 million next year (almost identical to this past year).

Designated Tuition, Unversity Service Fees and Student Services Fees will subsidize football, volleyball, basketball, softball, baseball, track, tennis and golf almost $11 million. Administration, trainers, other minor sports are additional expenses.

I would not have a problem with schools moving up divisions if the financial burden didn't fall almost squarely on the students and their families. But it does and as someone who is paying tuition for our youngest, enough is enough, And with the designated tuition, a minimum of 15% of designated tuition above $46 per semester hour goes to pay for tuition and fees for other students.

[Wildcat Khan]

I am just joking when I refer to Tarleton, ACU, IW, etc as "juggernauts". They are pretty average D1 teams whose records are inflated by playing joke teams. They do get nice paydays for being knocked around by good teams though.

WT was always D1 until the 80s.

Tarleton gave Gonzaga a tough game last season in basketball. It could have been their play style, but they didn't look overmatched that night in the Kennel losing 64-55.

[Great White Buffalo]

Hardin Simmons and Trinity used to be D1. They seem to be doing okay.


According to SFA's budget, Revenues from ticket sales game guarantees, NCAA revenues and concessions, will total less than $1.6 million next year (almost identical to this past year).

Designated Tuition, Unversity Service Fees and Student Services Fees will subsidize football, volleyball, basketball, softball, baseball, track, tennis and golf almost $11 million. Administration, trainers, other minor sports are additional expenses.

I would not have a problem with schools moving up divisions if the financial burden didn't fall almost squarely on the students and their families. But it does and as someone who is paying tuition for our youngest, enough is enough, And with the designated tuition, a minimum of 15% of designated tuition above $46 per semester hour goes to pay for tuition and fees for other students.

THIS!

[WT_TKW]

Tarleton gave Gonzaga a tough game last season in basketball. It could have been their play style, but they didn't look overmatched that night in the Kennel losing 64-55.

I believe you. There are some LSC teams that would probably do well against D1 teams in basketball. Would I watch? No.

[WT_TKW]

THIS!

Yet you don't mind that the (BS)² does the same thing for only 5-6 games per year? $300/year/per student, whether they ever go to a game or not.

[ASUPops]

After I looked over the barren Commerce softball roster, I took a look at their football schedule. Jake had mentioned 2 teams that are on the schedule that should be laughers (Lincoln and North American). However I don't remember Houston Baptist being mentioned, and they play TWICE. HBU was 0-11 last year which is probably not that much worse than normal. So Commerce should have a minimum of 4 wins to brag about in their first year.

Not bad, considering when I look at the WT schedule, I am pretty sure we will defeat WNMU and SFU, but I wouldn't bet more than $1 on either game. I see Adams State only won 1 game last year but Hughes teams are notoriously slow starters, at least for D2 opponents, so I am not betting on that one.

Are you smoking something? Of course WT will easily win all 3 of those "fluff" games.

With Hughes at WT since 2017. I would assume he has had plenty of time to put together his program.

With Tarleton gone. Commerce gone. And with Angelo losing many players in the transfer portal and to graduation, only MSU-Texas will be any competition from the LSC teams. CWU might be a 2nd. Hence, WT shoukd WIN the LSC. At the worst, they SHOULD be 9-2.

Here is what Hughes has done during his building years:

HUNTER HUGHES RECORD

Year	Overall	LSC	Place
2021	4-4	3-2	---
2020	3-3	---	---
2019	8-3	5-3	T-3rd
2018	6-5	4-4	T-4th
2017	3-8	1-7	T-8th
Total (5 Years)	24-23	13-16

I really can't see WT not winning the conference. But, if they don't and finish less than 9-2, then ot is time for major changes.

[WT_TKW]

Are you smoking something? Of course WT will easily win all 3 of those "fluff" games.

With Hughes at WT since 2017. I would assume he has had plenty of time to put together his program.

With Tarleton gone. Commerce gone. And with Angelo losing many players in the transfer portal and to graduation, only MSU-Texas will be any competition from the LSC teams. CWU might be a 2nd. Hence, WT shoukd WIN the LSC. At the worst, they SHOULD be 9-2.

Here is what Hughes has done during his building years:

HUNTER HUGHES RECORD

Year	Overall	LSC	Place
2021	4-4	3-2	---
2020	3-3	---	---
2019	8-3	5-3	T-3rd
2018	6-5	4-4	T-4th
2017	3-8	1-7	T-8th
Total (5 Years)	24-23	13-16

I really can't see WT not winning the conference. But, if they don't and finish less than 9-2, then ot is time for major changes.

I smoked, but I didn't inhale.

I said I would bet on wins for 2 of those games, and that the other should happen. However, Hughes can lose any game against any opponent. Western Oregon should have been a 28 point win, but it was a loss. UTPB should have been easy, but at one point they were ahead 42-17. UTPB finished 5-5.

The team did play a good game against MSU and a nice half against Mines.

2019 shouldn't count. It was the lone year Hughes had a decent OC.

Up the middle to mediocrity.

[Wildcat Khan]

I smoked, but I didn't inhale.

I said I would bet on wins for 2 of those games, and that the other should happen. However, Hughes can lose any game against any opponent. Western Oregon should have been a 28 point win, but it was a loss. UTPB should have been easy, but at one point they were ahead 42-17. UTPB finished 5-5.

The team did play a good game against MSU and a nice half against Mines.

2019 shouldn't count. It was the lone year Hughes had a decent OC.

Up the middle to mediocrity.

It is sad to see how far WT has fallen. I remember how good their games against CWU were, even if CWU lost the more important one by more than they lost to Montana that year.

[LionFan]

Hardin Simmons and Trinity used to be D1. They seem to be doing okay.

If you're trying to sell me Hardin Simmons and Trinity over the schools I listed, I think we have different opinions on what okay is.

[LionFan]

As for the burden falling on the student I guess that really depends on how much you value the experiences they get from it. I'm paying for my son to go to Oklahoma State. The athletic experiences he's had the last two years are worth ten times what we would save by him going to Hardin Simmons or Liberty. Different strokes for different folks I guess.