American Southwest Conference

[Mavchamp]

24 sports and only 1400 students signals a pretty questionable situation.

Which school is that? HPU?

ETBU has 24 sports....but 8 of them are club level only. And the enrollment is 2,000. Probably 2100 by this Fall if the trend continues.

[MooseLodge]

Which school is that? HPU?

ETBU has 24 sports....but 8 of them are club level only. And the enrollment is 2,000. Probably 2100 by this Fall if the trend continues.

Total enrollment isn't 2000. It's 1,657, with 1,481 undergrad. 95 are on the football team.

East Texas Baptist University reports record Spring 2024 enrollment | News | marshallnewsmessenger.com

ETBU has a 15:1 student/faculty ratio, which means there are fewer than 100 faculty, yet they offer 40 different majors. Huge red flag. Their four-year graduation rate is 36 percent, which is good, but there's a lot more to that story.

Howard Payne is even worse. They have a four-year graduation rate of 24%. Undergrad enrollment is 817 - though some figures place undergraduate numbers in the low 700s. 121 are on the football team. HPU has around 75 faculty, yet amazingly offers over 100 different majors.

Neither of these schools, nor Hardin-Simmons, are likely to be open in ten years. The schools are only open due to sports. Athletes are keeping the schools open, and as a result, the academics are completely dumbed down to keep all of those ACT 16/SAT 960 scores on campus next semester. That's not higher education; it's a piece of paper, and it isn't a sustainable model.

UMHB is on better footing, with approximately 3,000 undergraduate enrollment.

[Mavchamp]

Total enrollment isn't 2000. It's 1,657, with 1,481 undergrad. 95 are on the football team.

East Texas Baptist University reports record Spring 2024 enrollment | News | marshallnewsmessenger.com

ETBU has a 15:1 student/faculty ratio, which means there are fewer than 100 faculty, yet they offer 40 different majors. Huge red flag. Their four-year graduation rate is 36 percent, which is good, but there's a lot more to that story.

Howard Payne is even worse. They have a four-year graduation rate of 24%. Undergrad enrollment is 817 - though some figures place undergraduate numbers in the low 700s. 121 are on the football team. HPU has around 75 faculty, yet amazingly offers over 100 different majors.

Neither of these schools, nor Hardin-Simmons, are likely to be open in ten years. The schools are only open due to sports. Athletes are keeping the schools open, and as a result, the academics are completely dumbed down to keep all of those ACT 16/SAT 960 scores on campus next semester. That's not higher education; it's a piece of paper, and it isn't a sustainable model.

UMHB is on better footing, with approximately 3,000 undergraduate enrollment.

I disagree.

There are some stark differences between the 4 Baptist schools in spite of their similarities.

ETBU's admission rate is about 66%. Compared to 87% at Hardin Simmons and 96% at UMHB. The national average is 70%. Students DO have to have some academic acumen to get into ETBU. They are ranked moderately competitive with an average admitting GPA of 3.5. The average ETBU ACT score is 21. The Average SAT score is 1040.

20.5 % of their grads are healthcare professionals (RN, Lab, Rehab, etc) The RN program is ranked as one of the top in the state of Texas. Has had 100% pass rate on the national NCLEX exam multiple times. Was ranked #1 in Texas in 2021 I believe.

17.4% are elementary education grads and the program has a 95% teacher certification exam pass rate on the first attempt.

The religion department is possibly the largest department on campus between Christian study/Religion majors and minors. A large majority of those graduates continue their studies at seminary for graduate and doctorate degrees. They are currently working on acquiring one of the seminary schools from Baylor.

Their criminal justice/Law enforcement program is still fairly new, but is one of the fastest growing on campus with a successful job placement rate. I assume there's a test/exam for that too, but I can't find the stats.

I have no doubt that ETBU has some flaws.....both within and outside of their athletic department, but athletics aren't the financial driver of the campus. The cash cows are Religion, Healthcare, Teacher Education, and business.

I don't think they fit into the same academic category that's been presented. There are more stringent admission standards than some, a higher retention rate, and a higher graduation rate. Those things should matter.

They are not where they need to be yet.....but it's a far cry from being a degree factory for dummies.

JMHO

[crixus]

I disagree.

There are some stark differences between the 4 Baptist schools in spite of their similarities.

ETBU's admission rate is about 66%. Compared to 87% at Hardin Simmons and 96% at UMHB. The national average is 70%. Students DO have to have some academic acumen to get into ETBU. They are ranked moderately competitive with an average admitting GPA of 3.5. The average ETBU ACT score is 21. The Average SAT score is 1040.

20.5 % of their grads are healthcare professionals (RN, Lab, Rehab, etc) The RN program is ranked as one of the top in the state of Texas. Has had 100% pass rate on the national NCLEX exam multiple times. Was ranked #1 in Texas in 2021 I believe.

17.4% are elementary education grads and the program has a 95% teacher certification exam pass rate on the first attempt.

The religion department is possibly the largest department on campus between Christian study/Religion majors and minors. A large majority of those graduates continue their studies at seminary for graduate and doctorate degrees. They are currently working on acquiring one of the seminary schools from Baylor.

Their criminal justice/Law enforcement program is still fairly new, but is one of the fastest growing on campus with a successful job placement rate. I assume there's a test/exam for that too, but I can't find the stats.

I have no doubt that ETBU has some flaws.....both within and outside of their athletic department, but athletics aren't the financial driver of the campus. The cash cows are Religion, Healthcare, Teacher Education, and business.

I don't think they fit into the same academic category that's been presented. There are more stringent admission standards than some, a higher retention rate, and a higher graduation rate. Those things should matter.

They are not where they need to be yet.....but it's a far cry from being a degree factory for dummies.

JMHO

I agree with you Mavchamp.

[MooseLodge]

A 36 percent graduation rate for a private liberal arts college is terrible. It tells you that much of the student population there is ballers. Just look at their minimum test score requirements.

Here are the graduation rates from real private schools around Texas: Trinity, 80%, Southwestern, 64%; Rice, 93.6%, Baylor 81.6%, TCU 83.7%, SMU 82.3%, Austin College 68%, UMHB 49.9%, St. Thomas 62%. LeTourneau, 49%, ACU 60%.

The baller private "schools" in Texas are as follows:

ETBU, 36%
HPU, 35%
Wayland Baptist, 25%
HSU, 52%*
Texas Wesleyan, 17%.
McMurry, 31%

Here is the typical experience at these schools: The baller gets recruited, and promised (s)he can be a college athlete. Big signing day party. The school assists them in getting grants, and the rest of the money is paid for by the student, usually via loans. They are paying to play, and often going into serious debt to do so. The student arrives at the school, and in the first semester, they realize it's mostly a ruse. Most kids at the schools are athletes, there are far too many kids on the teams to have any chance of playing, and the academics are a joke. The academics are a joke because they have to be: They are admitting low-performing students to ball and pay the bills, and the curriculum has to be reduced to a ninth-grade equivalency to keep them all passing their classes, so that they can continue to ball and pay the school's bills. "Criminal Justice" is one of the more popular majors with the ballers at these tiny schools - draw your own conclusions on that one - and it is a very easy and cheap major to sponsor. There is also very little accreditation oversight with this major.

Many of these freshmen ballers are gone the spring semester. You see that when enrollment drops 20 percent from the fall. Some kids, it takes a bit longer to pick up the clue phone. So out of that 400-freshman class - two thirds of which are athletes, there remains 120 or less, to actually get a degree 4 years later. Many of those 120 were actual students that went to the school to learn. Nurses, teachers, law enforcement.

Bottom line is, most kids going to these schools will not graduate there, with the exception of *HSU. And their curriculum is highly questionable, to put it nicely.

The remaining ASC schools, ETBU, HPU, HSU, and UMHB, are going to struggle to find a conference to play in, because their business model of churning athletes to keep the school open won't be acceptable for most conferences. UMHB might have the freight to go D2 and possibly FCS. The other guys aren't joining the Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference (SCAC) because the SCAC is a conference of legit academic schools that want no part of baller schools.

Their best option is the Sooner Athletic Conference, NAIA, where they can join a bunch of other schools doing the same thing.

This is all very much out of whack, on a variety of levels. The schools have abdicated all academic credibility to keep their doors open, by using kids and preying on their dreams to play college sports, loading them up with all kinds of debt, and not providing a true college education. It really should be illegal.