Texas Wesleyan moving up to NCAA D2

[tsull]

Interesting news, CWU and WOU have a year to figure this out. Before out-of-staters, who have never stepped foot on the CWU or WOU campuses tell us what to do, I'll chime in. For WOU, we're not cutting football and we're not going back to NAIA. It's most likely an independent route. The NAIA conference in the Northwest are a bunch of 500 enrollment bible schools, with the exception of SOU and EOU. The Montana NAIA league is great in athletics; WOU isn't going back to NAIA and honestly, that travel is nearly as bad as LSC. I'm not sure what WOU will do, most likely an independent schedule. It would be the only Indy sport at the school. I don't blame the LSC for moving in a different direction, we knew this day was coming. It's up to WOU and CWU to forge plans, which I'm sure they're doing.

* Football playing options for WOU on the West Coast include SOU and EOU; FCS schools PSU, EWU, Cal Poly, San Diego. D2 non-conference RMAC and LSC if needed. Before someone says you can't play that, you won't go to playoffs, you need to cut football, just stay in your lane. Oh, the RMAC has never handed out invites to either school, that's not happening.

[MooseLodge]

Let's stop that talk now. LOL

I think facilities wise, CWU is looking pretty good - we have put tens of millions into T/F facility, upgrades at Tomlinson Stadium (and more master plans show expansion there), our Nicholson Arena is phenomenal including more seating, improved fan experience, more locker rooms, weightrooms, meeting/offices and an indoor facility. Fundraising is up, schollys. All is good..............for D2. If we moved up, we'd battle Northern Colorado for the cellar. We just don't have the alumni base, business base and metropolitan base to compete with powerful FCS schools. I quote the great tsull when I say if your goal for FCS, mid-major D1 is to make March Madness once every 10 years for the TV money/exposure, then you're doing it wrong. For every Tarleton State who seems to be killing it right now 5 years after leaving D2, there's 10 more who are doing the opposite.

Tarleton has over 15,000 undergraduates to tax, so it's pretty easy for them to be in FCS.

[tsull]

Thanks, Goods, I appreciate the nice compliment. I chuckled a bit. Regarding infrastructure, I think it's really key to being a metropolitan area or near one or have long been a division one school to pull off being in that division. As a follower of the Big Sky Conference, most of those schools draw horrifically at the gate in football and men's basketball and are barely keeping things afloat financially. The two outliers are Montana and Montana State, who draw tremendously in football and men's basketball. Montana State University just won the national championship, have expanded their football stadium greatly in the last decade, and made some tremendous coaching hires in that sport.

A lot of the other Big Sky schools are just hanging on. The University of Idaho has never been anything lower than division one, yet they draw perhaps a thousand a game at the gate in basketball and maybe 10,000 in football. Eastern Washington draws even worse even though they've had some success in football, once winning an FCS championship. They draw under 9,000 a game in football and under 1,000 a game in basketball.

Despite being in a Metro area, Portland State draws horribly in both football and men's basketball and plays their football games about 15 miles off campus in a high school type stadium. They have a nice new arena in basketball that they get about a thousand a game. There's a lot of division 1 schools that should be division 2. Won- loss wise, Idaho State University should be division 2. They hired a pretty good basketball coach in Ryan Looney, a highly successful division 2 coach. They're getting ready to fire him this year, I've heard. Not sure why Looney left the paradise of San Diego to move to Pocatello, Idaho.

I won't speak of other FCS conferences as I'm not that familiar with them. But I do know in the West Coast, most are barely hanging on and some are dipping into academic monies to keep athletic departments alive. They draw nothing at the gate, have little booster power, and just want to be D1 in name. I call thcall D1annabes.

[Herb Street]

Probably 80 percent of Division 1 programs are such in name only.

[AmaKnight]

Last time I brought this up, I got called all kinds of names 😂

But here’s the reality:

The majority of ADs in this conference are looking at removing our friends out west — not because they’re bad institutions, but because it’s simply more cost-effective for the rest of the league.

From a conference standpoint, it makes financial sense. Reduced travel, lower expenses, and more regional alignment all help stabilize budgets. However, it unfortunately puts those schools out west in a very difficult position.

With revenue sharing and the evolving NIL landscape, making the jump to FCS is an extremely heavy financial lift. Between increased scholarships, staffing, facilities, and operating costs, that move requires a level of long-term investment that I just don’t see most LSC institutions being in a position to make right now.

It’s not personal — it’s financial reality.

[Buffalo/Islander Alum]

Last time I brought this up, I got called all kinds of names 😂

But here’s the reality:

The majority of ADs in this conference are looking at removing our friends out west — not because they’re bad institutions, but because it’s simply more cost-effective for the rest of the league.

From a conference standpoint, it makes financial sense. Reduced travel, lower expenses, and more regional alignment all help stabilize budgets. However, it unfortunately puts those schools out west in a very difficult position.

With revenue sharing and the evolving NIL landscape, making the jump to FCS is an extremely heavy financial lift. Between increased scholarships, staffing, facilities, and operating costs, that move requires a level of long-term investment that I just don’t see most LSC institutions being in a position to make right now.

It’s not personal — it’s financial reality.

Yeah peeps take it personal. Honestly this was never a long term plan. It was mutually beneficial at the time because Tarleton and East Texas A&M flipped the LSC the bird and moved on and was before Sul Ross joined the conference and Simon Frasier went belly up. It baffles me how D2 went belly up out west and should be at least several schools out there with D2 programs. I hope CW and WO figure out a way. If you think NE State has trouble finding 8-9 D2 games as an independent to qualify for the playoffs and they are in the middle of the D2 action, then you ain't seen nothing yet. The challenge will be telling recruits that they no longer have a guaranteed path to the playoffs as an independent. IF I am CW and WO, I am rooting for Angelo, WTAM, etc. to announce they are moving to the Southland.

[IronOre]

I've long been of the opinion, especially after the way SFU was kicked to the curb, that the LSC would drop CWU and WOU the second they had the opportunity to, while maintaining earned access for the conference football programs. This move just brings it closer to reality. I really don't know what CWU and WOU do once it happens. There's a good FCS conference in the area and a goodish NAIA conference in the area. Maybe they work a deal to just move the football programs over to one of those? I imagine the NCAA will give them some latitude given the conditions of D2 football in the west. Maybe both schools drop football. It's a tough situation.

[tsull]

Last time I brought this up, I got called all kinds of names 😂

But here’s the reality:

The majority of ADs in this conference are looking at removing our friends out west — not because they’re bad institutions, but because it’s simply more cost-effective for the rest of the league.

From a conference standpoint, it makes financial sense. Reduced travel, lower expenses, and more regional alignment all help stabilize budgets. However, it unfortunately puts those schools out west in a very difficult position.

With revenue sharing and the evolving NIL landscape, making the jump to FCS is an extremely heavy financial lift. Between increased scholarships, staffing, facilities, and operating costs, that move requires a level of long-term investment that I just don’t see most LSC institutions being in a position to make right now.

It’s not personal — it’s financial reality.

I agree with this. The problems I have is when people get on here -- like last year -- and said WOU should go D1, same with CWU. The Wildcats can't make that move and are in better shape than WOU, though after budget cuts, WOU's athletic budget is bigger than CWU's, both are 15 million dollars short of Big Sky finances. The other thing I get is just go D3. Which conference would they join? The Northwest Conference has a league rule where state schools can't participate. One year they let Eastern Oregon for football only. They kicked them out the next year. The other argument is just go NAIA. While reasonable, the league is based in Montana, where SOU takes 18-hour (one-way) bus trips to the state. There's not a lot of options out here since SFU, Humboldt, WWU, Azusa, Chico, Sonoma, and Hayward, cut D2 football in the last 20 years.

The reason I emphasize staying in lanes is because I don't tell ASU, UTPB, etc., what leagues and divisions they should be in. Here's what I know about the LSC: ASU is very good, WOU's win over them last year was their first. UTPB is very good, WOU got a late fumble to win, otherwise it would've been tough to hang on. Kingsville has been a great opponent as has WT. I'll comment on football. Want to go FCS, D3 or NAIA? I have no clue about those conferences in your region so I won't comment on it.

[Brandon]

TWU's coach left to coach at Morehouse.

[Goods]

I 100% get why the LSC holds onto us the past few years, but we've always known this is a short term solution. CWU and WOU are gone second it makes sense to do so and that will be to the surprise of no one. If any of us northwest guys are surly, we're frustrated with the reality, but totally get that it's not the LSC's fault. Abilene, Commerce, Tarleton all broke up with the LSC and CWU and WOU are the rebound boyfriend until something better comes up. You could say that we're done with the LSC after the 2027 season and it won't shock me.

What I also think could happen is some sort of scheduling alliance between the LSC, Gulf South and CWU/WOU, but even then, it would make way more sense for LSC/GSC to do that and kick us to the curb.

[AngeloFan]

Word around San Angelo is that CWU and WOU are out. We shall see

[MooseLodge]

TWU's coach left to coach at Morehouse.

You're back? Welcome!

[MooseLodge]

I agree with this. The problems I have is when people get on here -- like last year -- and said WOU should go D1, same with CWU. The Wildcats can't make that move and are in better shape than WOU, though after budget cuts, WOU's athletic budget is bigger than CWU's, both are 15 million dollars short of Big Sky finances. The other thing I get is just go D3. Which conference would they join? The Northwest Conference has a league rule where state schools can't participate. One year they let Eastern Oregon for football only. They kicked them out the next year. The other argument is just go NAIA. While reasonable, the league is based in Montana, where SOU takes 18-hour (one-way) bus trips to the state. There's not a lot of options out here since SFU, Humboldt, WWU, Azusa, Chico, Sonoma, and Hayward, cut D2 football in the last 20 years.

The reason I emphasize staying in lanes is because I don't tell ASU, UTPB, etc., what leagues and divisions they should be in. Here's what I know about the LSC: ASU is very good, WOU's win over them last year was their first. UTPB is very good, WOU got a late fumble to win, otherwise it would've been tough to hang on. Kingsville has been a great opponent as has WT. I'll comment on football. Want to go FCS, D3 or NAIA? I have no clue about those conferences in your region so I won't comment on it.

Yeah, you gotta go with whatever is the best fit for your school, be it FCS, D2, D3, or even NAIA. Every school is in a unique situation. Could be that you drop football and try to get into the WCC? Football can be exceedingly tough in certain situations. WT got the ol' Oregon State treatment when Arizona, Arizona State, BYU, Texas Tech, UTEP, Utah, and Utah State bolted the Border Conference for greener pastures and WT didn't get an invite. Geographically, their only option was the Missouri Vally to play football, but when North Texas and New Mexico State left, they were stuck playing in an upper midwest conference. We can see how all of that turned out.

WT was geographically isolated from all D1 ball, with Tech being the closest program at 120 miles away. The Lone Star Conference was really their only option. If the LSC was NAIA or FCS, they'd still be playing in it by necessity. If they went Southland or WAC (now United Athletic Conference), their nearest opponent would be ACU, followed by East Texas A&M at around 400 miles away. The rest of the Southland are 600-800 miles away. The UAC schools are in Utah, as well as Austin Peay, Eastern Kentucky, North Alabama, West Georgia and Central Arkansas. WT isn't going to do that.

WT is in D2 and the LSC because there are no other realistic options, even if they had another $5-10 million to toss around.

I do see a day with ACU, WT, Angelo, ETaTm, IWU, Sam Houston, Stephen F. Austin, and possibly Lamar circling the wagons and forming a conference that offers programs some reasonable travel inside the state of Texas. UCO could be in that mix, too. Tarleton won't be in the picture because they have larger aspirations.

[tsull]

I'm thankful that the Lone Star Conference threw us a lifeline for a few years. I truly enjoyed the competition that they brought to the game. I saw some tremendous teams. I remember seeing Angelo State getting off the bus and they looked like a good FCS team. They also played like a good FCS team.

I think the coaching in the Lone Star conference is excellent and the talent is top notch. I've enjoyed the conference, I didn't think it was long-term. I appreciate them letting us be in the league. I'm more pissed off at the Western Washingtons and Humboldt States of the world, who gave up on the sport rather quickly even after money was raised to save it. They were cut by East Coast presidents, who once they made those cuts, retired. I hope the Lone Star does well moving forward, I like the fans here and I think the teams have been truly excellent.

[AmaKnight]

I agree with this. The problems I have is when people get on here -- like last year -- and said WOU should go D1, same with CWU. The Wildcats can't make that move and are in better shape than WOU, though after budget cuts, WOU's athletic budget is bigger than CWU's, both are 15 million dollars short of Big Sky finances. The other thing I get is just go D3. Which conference would they join? The Northwest Conference has a league rule where state schools can't participate. One year they let Eastern Oregon for football only. They kicked them out the next year. The other argument is just go NAIA. While reasonable, the league is based in Montana, where SOU takes 18-hour (one-way) bus trips to the state. There's not a lot of options out here since SFU, Humboldt, WWU, Azusa, Chico, Sonoma, and Hayward, cut D2 football in the last 20 years.

The reason I emphasize staying in lanes is because I don't tell ASU, UTPB, etc., what leagues and divisions they should be in. Here's what I know about the LSC: ASU is very good, WOU's win over them last year was their first. UTPB is very good, WOU got a late fumble to win, otherwise it would've been tough to hang on. Kingsville has been a great opponent as has WT. I'll comment on football. Want to go FCS, D3 or NAIA? I have no clue about those conferences in your region so I won't comment on it.

I understand what you’re saying, and I respect that perspective.

Just like we all jump on here and say, “We should throw it more,” or “We should’ve gone for it,” the reality is most of us aren’t on the sideline. We’re not in practice, we don’t see the injuries, depth issues, or game plan adjustments. So we can have opinions, but we’re not actually in position to make those calls.

It’s the same thing with conference talk or division discussions.

When people talk about FCS, D3, NAIA, or conference realignment, it’s not about telling another program what they should do. It’s just discussion — the same way fans analyze play-calling. None of us are in those boardrooms. We don’t see the full financials, long-term strategy, or institutional goals.

So when I talk about possibilities, it’s not directive — it’s conversation. Just fans thinking out loud about “what’s next,” like they always have in college football.

At the end of the day, we’re all just talking ball.