Harlon Hill...SR4 Nominees

[Tundra_Man]

Re: Harlon Hill...SR4 Nominees

Yes they would have. They had a better defense than any NSIC South team. Just look at the common opponents..namely Augie.

UMD played good D against Commerce....their offense and special teams didn't come through. I wouldn't make the assumption that CSUP has a better D..especially if giving up less points in a rain storm game against a passing team is the reasoning..but there's been some trolling going on here - taking shots at Duluth....so I'm guessing that's the angle. CSUP and UMD are very similar across the board..and the UMD D played strong against everyone they played.

Agreed. UMD's defense gave up 20 points against a playoff team, and scored two defensive TDs. That works out to a 6 point differential. Most any fan in the nation would be happy if their defense did that.

As you said, the problems in that game were the Bulldog special teams giving up TDs and giving Commerce short fields, and that Duluth's offense couldn't get anything going.

Duluth was clearly NOT the better team on the field that day. But it wasn't because of the defense.

[Turbonium]

Re: Harlon Hill...SR4 Nominees

Yes they would have. They had a better defense than any NSIC South team. Just look at the common opponents..namely Augie.

UMD played good D against Commerce....their offense and special teams didn't come through. I wouldn't make the assumption that CSUP has a better D..especially if giving up less points in a rain storm game against a passing team is the reasoning..but there's been some trolling going on here - taking shots at Duluth....so I'm guessing that's the angle. CSUP and UMD are very similar across the board..and the UMD D played strong against everyone they played.

I'm not sure I call Commerce a passing team this year, they ran the ball 75 more times than they threw it. Last year sure as they ran the ball on 396 plays compared to 645 pass attempts. Pueblo attempted more passes than Commerce in that rain even. The Lions are much more balanced without Perez and with the QB struggles. They're a big physical team that wants to control the LOS on both sides of the ball, they were able to (at the very least) match Duluth in being physical and from there athleticism won out.

[Purple Mav Man]

Re: Harlon Hill...SR4 Nominees

Yes they would have. They had a better defense than any NSIC South team. Just look at the common opponents..namely Augie.

UMD played good D against Commerce....their offense and special teams didn't come through. I wouldn't make the assumption that CSUP has a better D..especially if giving up less points in a rain storm game against a passing team is the reasoning..but there's been some trolling going on here - taking shots at Duluth....so I'm guessing that's the angle. CSUP and UMD are very similar across the board..and the UMD D played strong against everyone they played.

No, they wouldn't have. They were ahead of the #2 defense by fewer than 10 yards per game and were 4th in scoring defense. Take out Mary, Minot and Crookston and replace them with 3 south teams they didn't play this year. Do you honestly think they don't give up 10 yards more per game to those teams instead of the North cupcakes??

This isn't to take anything away from Duluth. Just seems irresponsible to think they'd still put up the same defensive numbers against much better competition.

Also not saying an NSIC south defense was better than theirs. But the offenses in the South are MUCH better than those in the north, 1-8.

[Matt Witwicki]

Re: Harlon Hill...SR4 Nominees

No, they wouldn't have. They were ahead of the #2 defense by fewer than 10 yards per game and were 4th in scoring defense. Take out Mary, Minot and Crookston and replace them with 3 south teams they didn't play this year. Do you honestly think they don't give up 10 yards more per game to those teams instead of the North cupcakes??

This isn't to take anything away from Duluth. Just seems irresponsible to think they'd still put up the same defensive numbers against much better competition.

Also not saying an NSIC south defense was better than theirs. But the offenses in the South are MUCH better than those in the north, 1-8.

Gotcha..I thought your comment was implying they would've have been the top defense in the South. I'm saying they clearly would've been.

If you start saying, "if you take out these games", you've lost me. The RMAC has bottom teams too. Duluth's numbers have them as the #1 D in the country, period. That said, I'm saying CSUP is on a level playing field with them, because while their numbers aren't quite as good across the board, they are close and they have played a tougher slate than UMD. All said, the way UMD played against the top offenses they saw this year....speaks for itself.

[Purple Mav Man]

Re: Harlon Hill...SR4 Nominees

Gotcha..I thought your comment was implying they would've have been the top defense in the South. I'm saying they clearly would've been.

If you start saying, "if you take out these games", you've lost me. The RMAC has bottom teams too. Duluth's numbers have them as the #1 D in the country, period. That said, I'm saying CSUP is on a level playing field with them, because while their numbers aren't quite as good across the board, they are close and they have played a tougher slate than UMD. All said, the way UMD played against the top offenses they saw this year....speaks for itself.

Same schedule, certainly #1 defense in the South.

The only reason the 'take out these games' came up was because if Duluth were in the South (in this hypothetical) they would have fewer games against the much weaker North offenses. Only for that comparison. However, the 'ifs and buts' game is not one I like to play or see played :)

As I mentioned, not trying to take anything away from Duluth. They played who they were scheduled to play and, for the most part outside of Bemidji, dominated them. I just don't think they played any 'top offenses', outside of Augustana. I also would say the Commerce D outplayed the Duluth D last week. Total yardage was under 200 for Duluth and the offense scored only 3 points against Commerce's D.

Lots of good defenses left in the playoffs!!

[Boohaha]

Re: Harlon Hill...SR4 Nominees

Same schedule, certainly #1 defense in the South.

The only reason the 'take out these games' came up was because if Duluth were in the South (in this hypothetical) they would have fewer games against the much weaker North offenses. Only for that comparison. However, the 'ifs and buts' game is not one I like to play or see played :)

As I mentioned, not trying to take anything away from Duluth. They played who they were scheduled to play and, for the most part outside of Bemidji, dominated them. I just don't think they played any 'top offenses', outside of Augustana. I also would say the Commerce D outplayed the Duluth D last week. Total yardage was under 200 for Duluth and the offense scored only 3 points against Commerce's D.

Lots of good defenses left in the playoffs!!

Commerce offense is terrible this year. Duluth defense def looked over rated. Granted their offense did them no favors and did not give them a chance to catch their breath.
But Commerce offense has been a non factor for the most part this year in the LSC.

[msumavfan]

Re: Harlon Hill...SR4 Nominees

Commerce offense is terrible this year. Duluth defense def looked over rated. Granted their offense did them no favors and did not give them a chance to catch their breath.
But Commerce offense has been a non factor for the most part this year in the LSC.

[Matt Witwicki]

Re: Harlon Hill...SR4 Nominees

Commerce offense is terrible this year. Duluth defense def looked over rated. Granted their offense did them no favors and did not give them a chance to catch their breath.
But Commerce offense has been a non factor for the most part this year in the LSC.

42nd in D2 in scoring offense out of what..168 teams? "Terrible" Mmkay.

UMD D keeps a team under 300 yards of offense and allows what..19 points....and their D puts up 14 points themselves. "Overrated"

God..just send the asteroid now..

[Runnin' Cat]

Re: Harlon Hill...SR4 Nominees

42nd in D2 in scoring offense out of what..168 teams? "Terrible" Mmkay.

UMD D keeps a team under 300 yards of offense and allows what..19 points....and their D puts up 14 points themselves. "Overrated"

God..just send the asteroid now..

The color of the sky on his planet is different....

[Boohaha]

Re: Harlon Hill...SR4 Nominees

Matt that was well within commerces average this year..... Like i said their offense is not good, not even close to anything they had last year.

They had how many dropped passes for big gaines or scores?

EASTERN held commerce to 286 yards and 21 points a team that went 5-6 this year. Holding commerce to less than 300 is the norm, not anything special.

Im not saying Duluth is a terrible team just that their defensive ranking is probably more to do with the weakness of the teams they played that is all.

[msumavfan]

Re: Harlon Hill...SR4 Nominees

Matt that was well within commerces average this year..... Like i said their offense is not good, not even close to anything they had last year.

They had how many dropped passes for big gaines or scores?

EASTERN held commerce to 286 yards and 21 points a team that went 5-6 this year. Holding commerce to less than 300 is the norm, not anything special.

Im not saying Duluth is a terrible team just that their defensive ranking is probably more to do with the weakness of the teams they played that is all.

Commerce averaged 370 yards a game so you saying less than 300 yards is the norm is just not true but ok.