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  • Conference Expansion?

    In reading the conference scheduling threads (even the GLVC board has shown some life), it is becoming increasing clear that in my opinion the NSIC will need to add another institution. With that in mind what is the wish list for the NSIC ADs and fans. I don't know how realistic any of these are but here are my thoughts. I know this is a topic that has been brought up before, but in the cold miserable winter I wanted something else to talk about. None of these options are perfect, but they are the best options available. There is one other option too that I will address last.

    1. Morningside (NAIA) - The best possible option is obvious. They are a former NCC member and would be competitive immediately in most every sport. However, as has been mentioned they seem quite happy in the NAIA world and likely aren't interested. Can the NSIC convince them to make a jump?

    2. Northwestern (NAIA) - Basically the same. Not quite as good of a fit as Morningside, but I think they would remain competitive in the NSIC.

    3. NE Kearney (D2) - I don't think Kearney would have any interest in leaving the MIAA, but I think it is a phone call you have to make if the first 2 decline.

    4. Any Wisconsin D3 - Send the bat signal up to Wisconsin and see if anyone responds. Again, probably not going to happen but it doesn't hurt to ask right?

    5. Jamestown (NAIA) - Maybe the most likely option. The Jimmies fit well within the NSIC footprint and have decent facilities. I think they would struggle to be competitive for the most part and would probably be on the same level as Mary and Minot.

    6. St. John's (D3) - This one has been mentioned before and would require St. Benedict to join for women's sports. Again, probably not realistic but we are getting desperate at this point. Football-wise this would be a good fit, I'm not so sure with everything else.

    7. Dordt (NAIA) - They are mostly competitive in the GPAC and like I said we are getting desperate.

    8. Grand View (NAIA) - I believe Witt has mentioned this one before, and they seem to have built a pretty decent football program. I think they would struggle overall, and this is quite a haul for the northwestern front of the NSIC.

    9. Dakota St (NAIA) - They are building facilities that would fit right in with most of the NSIC. I still think the Trojans would struggle to be competitive but we need someone.

    10. Literally any other GPAC school (NAIA) - Dakota Weslyan is probably the next choice but at this point the NSIC probably takes anyone.


    This brings me to the nuclear option. Augie has made clear they intend to move to D1. Nobody knows for sure when that is going to happen. If the NSIC adds another institution and Augie is soon after able to make the jump then the NSIC will be back in the same boat it currently finds itself, except it will be worse with even fewer options available. If the NSIC believes Augie will be able to fully make the jump to D1 in the near term then they should help expedite that process and ask them to leave (St. Thomas them if you will). To be clear I don't care for this option, and if Augie is going to be in the NSIC long-term I think that is a good thing for the conference. However, the uncertainty needs to be eliminated from the equation.

  • #2
    Something I've considered is how the potential "next domino" will affect the domino after that. I haven't been able to shake the feeling that adding another Dakota school could nudge Winona State towards at least exploratory looks at membership elsewhere, possibly joining Upper Iowa in the GLVC.

    I feel like they've been one of the most affected programs since the NSIC expanded a decade ago. Maybe it wasn't all expansion-related, but one could easily point to it as a significant factor. They were pretty dominant in the NSIC in both football and men's basketball. They're still a solid program (in football, at least), but haven't had the same juice as they once had.

    The NSIC divisional alignment doesn't really do them any favors. Just as a couple of examples, UMD is a shorter trip than than SMSU and the BSU trip is equivalent to WSC.

    Comment


    • #3
      It's my belief that an Iowa school should be added and Morningside is the best candidate. M'side left the NCC due to their inability to compete. Like USF was they're a big fish in a small bowl. St. Johns would be a nice addition as well.

      Comment


      • #4
        In terms of ideal fits, Morningside is it. I think the only hold-up is if they want to pursue the NCAA.

        Comment


        • #5
          It's wild looking at Morningside's final season at the Division II level.

          Aug 31, 2000 at Northern Iowa L 14-47
          Sep 09, 2000 MN-MORRIS W 65-3
          *Sep 16, 2000 at Northern Colorado L 0-21
          *Sep 23, 2000 NEBRASKA-OMAHA L 14-16
          *9-30-2000 at South Dakota State L 14-51
          *Oct 07, 2000 at North Dakota L 6-54
          *Oct 14, 2000 AUGUSTANA L 14-42
          *Oct 21, 2000 at St. Cloud State L 20-23
          *Oct 28, 2000 SOUTH DAKOTA L 7-30
          *Nov 04, 2000 MINNESOTA ST-MANKATO L 6-47
          *Nov 11, 2000 at North Dakota State L 14-55

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Stanger86 View Post
            It's wild looking at Morningside's final season at the Division II level.

            Aug 31, 2000 at Northern Iowa L 14-47
            Sep 09, 2000 MN-MORRIS W 65-3
            *Sep 16, 2000 at Northern Colorado L 0-21
            *Sep 23, 2000 NEBRASKA-OMAHA L 14-16
            *9-30-2000 at South Dakota State L 14-51
            *Oct 07, 2000 at North Dakota L 6-54
            *Oct 14, 2000 AUGUSTANA L 14-42
            *Oct 21, 2000 at St. Cloud State L 20-23
            *Oct 28, 2000 SOUTH DAKOTA L 7-30
            *Nov 04, 2000 MINNESOTA ST-MANKATO L 6-47
            *Nov 11, 2000 at North Dakota State L 14-55
            Good old Morrs

            Comment


            • #7
              It would be cool if M'side moved up. I was just there a couple of weeks ago and their facilities wouldn't be the worst in the conference.

              I think the only true options are J'town and DSU - though DSU would get mauled immediately.

              Comment


              • #8
                We could take the 3 GNAC FB schools from the LSC. Or convince Saint Johns/Saint Bens to move up.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Stanger86 View Post
                  It's wild looking at Morningside's final season at the Division II level.

                  Aug 31, 2000 at Northern Iowa L 14-47
                  Sep 09, 2000 MN-MORRIS W 65-3
                  *Sep 16, 2000 at Northern Colorado L 0-21
                  *Sep 23, 2000 NEBRASKA-OMAHA L 14-16
                  *9-30-2000 at South Dakota State L 14-51
                  *Oct 07, 2000 at North Dakota L 6-54
                  *Oct 14, 2000 AUGUSTANA L 14-42
                  *Oct 21, 2000 at St. Cloud State L 20-23
                  *Oct 28, 2000 SOUTH DAKOTA L 7-30
                  *Nov 04, 2000 MINNESOTA ST-MANKATO L 6-47
                  *Nov 11, 2000 at North Dakota State L 14-55
                  1-10, that's a real eye opener! And not in a good way.


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Stanger86 View Post
                    In terms of ideal fits, Morningside is it. I think the only hold-up is if they want to pursue the NCAA.
                    Morningside has been very adamant that they couldn't have experienced the turnaround as an institution if they were in the NCAA. I don't think they will put themselves back in that position willingly.



                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by stealth View Post
                      Morningside has been very adamant that they couldn't have experienced the turnaround as an institution if they were in the NCAA. I don't think they will put themselves back in that position willingly.
                      And I 100% understand why they have held that stance.

                      But look at that schedule again...two of those schools are preparing to play for the FCS Championship. Another was in the FCS playoffs. A few others are decent FCS programs.

                      Division II is no longer what it was in 2000. The NSIC is not what the NCC used to be. Yes, Mankato is still here. Other programs are good too. But Morningside would absolutely not drop back down to that degree if they moved back to Division II. Maybe they don't compete for championships every year, but they could still have a solid program here.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Stanger86 View Post
                        And I 100% understand why they have held that stance.

                        But look at that schedule again...two of those schools are preparing to play for the FCS Championship. Another was in the FCS playoffs. A few others are decent FCS programs.

                        Division II is no longer what it was in 2000. The NSIC is not what the NCC used to be. Yes, Mankato is still here. Other programs are good too. But Morningside would absolutely not drop back down to that degree if they moved back to Division II. Maybe they don't compete for championships every year, but they could still have a solid program here.
                        FWIW, two of those schools don't have football anymore either.

                        USF was the big dog in the NAIA for a while and made an impact in D2 right away. Not saying the same would happen for MU, but I wouldn't mind seeing them join us.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Stanger86 View Post
                          And I 100% understand why they have held that stance.

                          But look at that schedule again...two of those schools are preparing to play for the FCS Championship. Another was in the FCS playoffs. A few others are decent FCS programs.

                          Division II is no longer what it was in 2000. The NSIC is not what the NCC used to be. Yes, Mankato is still here. Other programs are good too. But Morningside would absolutely not drop back down to that degree if they moved back to Division II. Maybe they don't compete for championships every year, but they could still have a solid program here.
                          It's quite possible their goals are much more than simply being solid.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            There is a pretty interesting article on The Athletic if you have a subscription regarding NDSU's views on moving up to FCS. I know that interest has waned a little in North Dakota's Professional Sports Team because people have become bored with all of the success. As the article lays out, NDSU moving to FCS is a difficult task because they aren't a great fit with any conference. They have the program and resources to compete on the G5 level similar to the many other schools that have made the jump in recent years. What the article doesn't really speak to is the rest of the sports. But, with most of the realignment the other sports are often an afterthought. Perhaps they could remain in the Summit even if football moves on to greener pastures somehow? I also wonder how this would affect SDSU. I don't know that they are thinking about moving up, but I get the feeling if NDSU moved, SDSU would feel they need to keep up as well. Whereas Morningside might be happy winning NAIA championships every year rather than being a decent D2 team, I believe NDSU believes they could have real success at the G5 level.

                            I mention all of this because it could have real consequences on the NSIC. If those schools move up does that create the necessary opening for Augie (or Mankato)?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Thunder View Post
                              There is a pretty interesting article on The Athletic if you have a subscription regarding NDSU's views on moving up to FCS. I know that interest has waned a little in North Dakota's Professional Sports Team because people have become bored with all of the success. As the article lays out, NDSU moving to FCS is a difficult task because they aren't a great fit with any conference. They have the program and resources to compete on the G5 level similar to the many other schools that have made the jump in recent years. What the article doesn't really speak to is the rest of the sports. But, with most of the realignment the other sports are often an afterthought. Perhaps they could remain in the Summit even if football moves on to greener pastures somehow? I also wonder how this would affect SDSU. I don't know that they are thinking about moving up, but I get the feeling if NDSU moved, SDSU would feel they need to keep up as well. Whereas Morningside might be happy winning NAIA championships every year rather than being a decent D2 team, I believe NDSU believes they could have real success at the G5 level.

                              I mention all of this because it could have real consequences on the NSIC. If those schools move up does that create the necessary opening for Augie (or Mankato)?
                              This could be its own thread. Ive had enough arguments with Bison folks about it. Just because your team cam compete with half the Big 12 or half the Big Ten or whatever...doesn't mean that conference would have any interest in you.

                              If everyone in North and South Dakota watched the Bison, that would still be well under 2 million addition viewers to your conference.

                              Build a bigger dome? Sure, but how many can you get. Kansas was averaging almost double the fans of NDSU when they were getting their teeth kicked in.

                              IF they want to make that move (for their fans) they better get used to a non P5 idea.

                              completely agree on the ripple effect. I think it's coming in the next five years but that's just me.

                              Comment

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