West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[boatcapt]

6'8" and 220 is much different than 6'8" and 270.

I think Cobo was around 6'9" and 220 lb by his senior year but 220 is pretty thin on a 6'9" frame.

The guys in the Gary Edwards era at IUP were like defensive linemen.

Never seriously ever said I wanted a 6'8", 270 guy just as I never said I wanted WLU to scrap their current style in favor of a low post, back to the basket offense. What I did say is that WLU needs to develop a secondary offense that is more inside focused for those times when our outside game is either A. not clicking or B. our opponent is capable of denying us our outside shots. Also, in the defensive end it seems logical to have a big capable of standing up to bigs that are dominating inside (i.e. Mercyhurst, Ship, etc). As I said, regular season, it's not often a concern...but as WLU progresses further in the NCAA tourney, the prospect of facing a big that is capable of defeating what we throw at him become greater and greater.

Worth noting, Winston Salem (our first opponent) has 6'9", 250 pound Rasheen Merlin, 6'8", 240 Cyille Diop and 6'7", 205 Shamon Jackson to throw at our collections of bigs...Next night we face an ESU team that could throw 6'10", 240 pound Ryan Smith, 6'8", 240 Zach Sabol and 6'6", 255 Cam Byers at us. WLU will defend these players with 6'7", 195 Elija Watson, 6'6", 205 Ben Sarson and 6'5", 205 Marlon Moore. Height and weight do not make a good player and these guys may be nothing more but given our size disparity, we better hope we hit the ground running and shoot at least .450+ from 3 in both games.

[Columbuseer]

Said by a fan of a team with four players 6'8", 220 pounds plus!!

Shocking to point out that a player like IUP's Daddy Ugbede... .700 from the field, over .700 from free throw line and hit the boards like no body's business...but didn't shoot the 3 (0 for 0 in his IUP career!) so WLU would have ZERO interest in even having him on their roster!!

Fortunately, it is still a team game. Every style has strengths and vulnerabilities.
Ugbede averaged 12 points a game. Iup averaged 1.13 ppp during that season. Outstanding for team with inside game, but below 1.25 range of nwmsu and wlu over multiple years. In a given game, any player can put up big numbers, like Ernst of Malone in regional, with Tradition post moves, great mobility and over 30 points.
but Malone faded in second half, despite atypical wlu brain cramps in the waning moments..
I agree with iupbig. 6-9 and 220 can be a very mobile player.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Said by a fan of a team with four players 6'8", 220 pounds plus!!

Shocking to point out that a player like IUP's Daddy Ugbede... .700 from the field, over .700 from free throw line and hit the boards like no body's business...but didn't shoot the 3 (0 for 0 in his IUP career!) so WLU would have ZERO interest in even having him on their roster!!

6'8" and 220 is much different than 6'8" and 270.

I think Cobo was around 6'9" and 220 lb by his senior year but 220 is pretty thin on a 6'9" frame.

The guys in the Gary Edwards era at IUP were like defensive linemen.

[boatcapt]

The game has changed , too. Very few teams (even in the once Center-heavy PSAC West, are carrying 'those' type of bigs.

Slippery Rock and Gannon were kind of the end of the era when JR and KR both got fired.

Charleston has a very good 'old school' center but by and large those 6'9", 270 lb centers of the 90s and 00s are gone.

The best legitimate big in the past decade was probably Dustin Sleva and he was also one of Ship's best outside shooters.

Said by a fan of a team with four players 6'8", 220 pounds plus!!

Shocking to point out that a player like IUP's Daddy Ugbede... .700 from the field, over .700 from free throw line and hit the boards like no body's business...but didn't shoot the 3 (0 for 0 in his IUP career!) so WLU would have ZERO interest in even having him on their roster!!

[boatcapt]

Fyi: Occasionally was not an adjective for fans. It is an adverb that means the topic arises from time to time. Did not want u to think it was a dig on any fan.

I think we just have different opinions on the relative difficulty of learning to playing two styles effectively against the high level competition that one would encounter in the regionals. Adage of "Jack of all trades, master of none" comes to mind.

Our style did quite well against teams with all conference traditional post players in the regional, even with a true freshman big. Regardless of style, coaches would give their eye teeth to have the regional seed and occasionally regional championship that you described. We don't need to avoid #1 seed in E8, just NWMSU. Lol

Points per possession determines who wins the game. Wlu style consistently results in high ppp.
I think the current roster may address your concerns about defending taller players with Marlon, Viktor, Elijah and Aiden.

Sorry, I just don't buy that the WLU style precludes any chance of learning/playing a secondary style. As I've said MANY times, I'm not talking about replacing our base style OR bring in a slew of 7 foot neanderthals that clock their movement up and down the court with an hourglass.

I'm a "tool box" guy. I think it is important to have a well rounded set of skills when I approach a particular job. Certainly there are "tools" that I'm better at using, but if I'm not willing to use the other tools I have in my tool box if my favorite tool doesn't work, there are going to be times when I fail. Do I spend a lot of time learning how to use these tools? Not really...but I do spend enough time to develop a basic compatancy in their use. WLU seems to have one tool in it's tool box and seems unwilling to even entertain putting another tool in the box. We have 15 hammers in our toolbox and spend 20 hours a week practicing the use of these hammers...Don't think it would adversely effect our ability to use hammers if we put a saw in the tool box and spent an hour a week figuring out how to use it.

[Columbuseer]

The game has changed , too. Very few teams (even in the once Center-heavy PSAC West, are carrying 'those' type of bigs.

Slippery Rock and Gannon were kind of the end of the era when JR and KR both got fired.

Charleston has a very good 'old school' center but by and large those 6'9", 270 lb centers of the 90s and 00s are gone.

The best legitimate big in the past decade was probably Dustin Sleva and he was also one of Ship's best outside shooters.

Some great points. Sleva - what an elite player! BTW he was playing for team D2 in the TBT. They beat a uva team and nearly beat best virginia. Made up of many former Lincoln Memorial and Queens nc players

[IUPbigINDIANS]

The game has changed , too. Very few teams (even in the once Center-heavy PSAC West, are carrying 'those' type of bigs.

Slippery Rock and Gannon were kind of the end of the era when JR and KR both got fired.

Charleston has a very good 'old school' center but by and large those 6'9", 270 lb centers of the 90s and 00s are gone.

The best legitimate big in the past decade was probably Dustin Sleva and he was also one of Ship's best outside shooters.

[Columbuseer]

The implication is that the "occasional fans" of which I count myself want WLU to play a center (actually a power forward) centric offense IN PLACE OF WLU's current style. I think I've been pretty clear that that is NOT want I want. What I am and always have advocated is to have a secondary offensive style...somthing sufficiently different that it forces our opponent to prepare differently and change what they are doing in a game. There is also a LOT of distance between a "back to the basket" only center and what WLU currently considers a big (basically, a shooting guard who just happens to be taller). WLU has many, MANY shooters and Ben can mix and match them in almost limitless combinations. Hard to believe that a coach like him would be unwilling to give up even one of his 15 Knights for just one Rook.

But clearly that is never going to happen. We will continue to put all our eggs in one style and player type basket...rumble through most conference regular seasons and MEC tourneys at or near the top. Be the 2 or 3 SR1 seed and occasionally compete for the #1 seed...win the SR1 Championship every few years and hope to avoid the #1 seed in the E8 game. Hope every year that our players get on a "don't miss" hot streak at the right time and that can carry us to a NC.

Fyi: Occasionally was not an adjective for fans. It is an adverb that means the topic arises from time to time. Did not want u to think it was a dig on any fan.

I think we just have different opinions on the relative difficulty of learning to playing two styles effectively against the high level competition that one would encounter in the regionals. Adage of "Jack of all trades, master of none" comes to mind.

Our style did quite well against teams with all conference traditional post players in the regional, even with a true freshman big. Regardless of style, coaches would give their eye teeth to have the regional seed and occasionally regional championship that you described. We don't need to avoid #1 seed in E8, just NWMSU. Lol

Points per possession determines who wins the game. Wlu style consistently results in high ppp.
I think the current roster may address your concerns about defending taller players with Marlon, Viktor, Elijah and Aiden.

[boatcapt]

https://statsbywill.com/2019/06/19/b...ter-actions/2/

The implication is that the "occasional fans" of which I count myself want WLU to play a center (actually a power forward) centric offense IN PLACE OF WLU's current style. I think I've been pretty clear that that is NOT want I want. What I am and always have advocated is to have a secondary offensive style...somthing sufficiently different that it forces our opponent to prepare differently and change what they are doing in a game. There is also a LOT of distance between a "back to the basket" only center and what WLU currently considers a big (basically, a shooting guard who just happens to be taller). WLU has many, MANY shooters and Ben can mix and match them in almost limitless combinations. Hard to believe that a coach like him would be unwilling to give up even one of his 15 Knights for just one Rook.

But clearly that is never going to happen. We will continue to put all our eggs in one style and player type basket...rumble through most conference regular seasons and MEC tourneys at or near the top. Be the 2 or 3 SR1 seed and occasionally compete for the #1 seed...win the SR1 Championship every few years and hope to avoid the #1 seed in the E8 game. Hope every year that our players get on a "don't miss" hot streak at the right time and that can carry us to a NC.

[Columbuseer]

https://statsbywill.com/2019/06/19/b...ter-actions/2/

[Columbuseer]

If team A calls an immediate timeout to start the game/half, can team B call one once the clock goes under 16 that would become the under 12 timeout? I suppose in that scenario you would still run into a pretty long stretch of time without a media timeout at some point. Could be interesting to see how it would play out.

That is the way I understand it. In general, wlu is dearth to call time outs unless players go really off the rails for an extended period. Often they call rolling time outs just to sub in players. They typically take their use it or lose it time out near end of 1st half to set up a 2 for 1 possession play. Wonder if they take it now at beginning of first half? Could the opponent (team b) now call time outs solely because of fatigue, thus limiting end game options?

For most teams, this rule would present no significant advantage, unless a fast paced, pressing team is involved. Glad our MEC opponents were not on committee or they likely would have objected vociferously! Lol

[Chuck Norris]

Found it. Goes into effect this season.
Be interesting to see if wlu uses a timeout 5 secs into each half... goal is to shorten elapsed time of games. Assume it applies to d2 also.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021...n#Rule_changes

• Team timeouts can serve as/replace media timeouts (e.g., team calls timeout at the 18-minute mark in a half, that would be used as the under-16-minute media timeout).

If team A calls an immediate timeout to start the game/half, can team B call one once the clock goes under 16 that would become the under 12 timeout? I suppose in that scenario you would still run into a pretty long stretch of time without a media timeout at some point. Could be interesting to see how it would play out.

[Columbuseer]

Found it. Goes into effect this season.
Be interesting to see if wlu uses a timeout 5 secs into each half... goal is to shorten elapsed time of games. Assume it applies to d2 also.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021...n#Rule_changes

• Team timeouts can serve as/replace media timeouts (e.g., team calls timeout at the 18-minute mark in a half, that would be used as the under-16-minute media timeout).

[Chuck Norris]

Just two quick comments for now:

Point #3: I noticed that happening more and more this season (much more than in years past). It became clear that opponents were using a "slow pickup" after a WLU make as a way to get their wind back and get organized. That's a reasonable response to WLU's style by opponents. But, yes, if there's a way to get the ref the ball and have him/her hurrying up the opponent, that would certainly help.

Point #6: That must have been the rule back when Crutch led WLU to one of their Final Fours. I have a very distinct memory of WLU, who had possession coming out of the half, inbounding the ball and immediately calling a time out, thereby forcing the "under 16" media timeout to take place with 19:59 on the clock. LONG time for an opponent to last to make it to the next media timeout for a break.

[boatcapt]

The games I watched I'm not sure I agree with No. 3. Seemed to me WL prefers to not get the ball to the ref or inbounder on purpose as it lets them set up the press. The teams I saw have the most success ... came when they could inbound it quickly.

I think WLU would be happy if a team tried that tactic because it plays into their hand. They want you to get their opponent moving quickly in one aspect of the game which leads to a team moving quickly in the rest of the game. Not many teams are diciplined enough to push the ball hard into the offensive end and not push it all the way to the rim. Not a lot of teams that are diciplined enough to pull back on the throttle to run a slow deliberate offense (the OTHER way people have said to beat WLU).

I've said this before, while WLU is certainly trying to get the turnover with their press, equally important is to get their opponent moving faster than they are used to which tends to increase fatigue (blackout).