West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[Columbuseer]

Watched walsh game replay to learn more about cmont Montague, 2nd team gmac point guard.
intelligent, unselfish player who can finish at the rim. I was really impressed by his defense. He may fill the gap left by dyer's departure. Add him to malik and with Patrick greatly improving on defense, we should be OK in half court defense against good guards.

[JDonAB92]

If the state boarders your conference it counts. So, MEC games against Findlay, etc., certainly would count.

When IUP played -- and lost -- to that undefeated Ferris State team 5-6 years ago, the loss obviously counts on the record but it doesn't factor in to the region-specific metrics.

I don't believe that is right. I thought the rule was if a state bordered a state in your region....not your conference....that it counts as an in-region contest. So Ferris should have counted as in-region.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Good info thanks. I remember that ferris state team. They gave #2 ranked michigan state a really tough exhibition game, losing 80-72.

https://www.mlive.com/spartans


I found the mandatory criteria for regional basketball rankings for D2 from 2015. Unless it has changed,, it confirms that bordering states count as in region games and the analyst was misinformed.
They infer some optional criteria to other articles. Playing ranked teams and winning teams are factors.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...UjTEKFIQ0vyy1g

IUP had that game won with 20 seconds to go ... and lost. Bitter loss.

[Columbuseer]

If the state boarders your conference it counts. So, MEC games against Findlay, etc., certainly would count.

When IUP played -- and lost -- to that undefeated Ferris State team 5-6 years ago, the loss obviously counts on the record but it doesn't factor in to the region-specific metrics.

Good info thanks. I remember that ferris state team. They gave #2 ranked michigan state a really tough exhibition game, losing 80-72.

https://www.mlive.com/spartans


I found the mandatory criteria for regional basketball rankings for D2 from 2015. Unless it has changed,, it confirms that bordering states count as in region games and the analyst was misinformed.
They infer some optional criteria to other articles. Playing ranked teams and winning teams are factors.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...UjTEKFIQ0vyy1g

[IUPbigINDIANS]

If the state boarders your conference it counts. So, MEC games against Findlay, etc., certainly would count.

When IUP played -- and lost -- to that undefeated Ferris State team 5-6 years ago, the loss obviously counts on the record but it doesn't factor in to the region-specific metrics.

[Columbuseer]

Anyone that says they know the "formula" is full of cr*p! There are a set of selection criteria that the regional selection committee "considers" but no direction on how they relate to each other. Net effect is that it gives the committee the "flexability" to make almost any selection and seeding decision they want to.

As for playing tough OOC opponents giving a team enhanced credibility, sure...provided you win the game. While there are people who seem to disagree, I believe W/L record is the primary consideration (within reason). While the SOS boost a team would get for playing, but losing to, a really good OOC team may offset this a bit, there is still more "value" in winning.

I'm sure WLU will put forth the best effort they are capable of in these games, but these four games are at best pick-um games. As such, there is a very real chance they lose them. Let's for a moment consider the prospect of them going 2-2 in those games and then loosing the 2-3 in-conference games that they typically lose in a given season. With 5 regular season losses and a regular season record of 23-5, you ain't talking about the #1 seed. Now say you ratcheted the difficult down a notch to four decent teams, but ones that WLU should beat, and you are talking about worst case record probably being 25-3 and you are in the discussion for the #1 seed and the home court that equates to. And beyond that, were you were ranked has a direct impact on whom you play in the E8...Want to avoid NW this coming season? Get a higher ranking. A 5-6 loss Atlantic Regional Champ WLU team has a pretty good chance of playing NW in the E8 game...3-4 loss Atlantic Regional Champ WLU team has a better chance of avoiding that.

Concerning WLU playing games v teams from Ohio, I THINK that they do count as "in-region." As I recall, there are two things that make this so. First, as the MEC has a team in Ohio, any team from Ohio counts as in-region. I also believe that the NCAA considers a game between two schools from states that border each other to be in-region. I could be off base on this but I recall a discussion on this from a number of years ago.

[Columbuseer]

UC is loaded in the MEC. according to verbalcommits they got a d1 transfer in Kobey Lam who is really good.

[boatcapt]

I freely admit that I don't know the formula for inclusion into the regionals. However, every conference seems to claim the title of the toughest, most competitive conference. So OOC games against other conferences in your region would seem to give a team some added credibility (provided you win). It might be a hedge if you lose a game or two in conference.

In the regional broadcast, one of the announcers said it was a shame that playing nearby teams out of the region does not not benefit in the regional ranking. This was in reference to the potential great rivalries between WLU and Findlay, Walsh, Malone, etc.

I think Daemen is a return trip from the away game two years ago. Based on the earlier broadcaster's comment, does that mean that a win over Daemen does not help us in the regional ranking, but a loss would hurt us with respect to the W-L record?

Anyone that says they know the "formula" is full of cr*p! There are a set of selection criteria that the regional selection committee "considers" but no direction on how they relate to each other. Net effect is that it gives the committee the "flexability" to make almost any selection and seeding decision they want to.

As for playing tough OOC opponents giving a team enhanced credibility, sure...provided you win the game. While there are people who seem to disagree, I believe W/L record is the primary consideration (within reason). While the SOS boost a team would get for playing, but losing to, a really good OOC team may offset this a bit, there is still more "value" in winning.

I'm sure WLU will put forth the best effort they are capable of in these games, but these four games are at best pick-um games. As such, there is a very real chance they lose them. Let's for a moment consider the prospect of them going 2-2 in those games and then loosing the 2-3 in-conference games that they typically lose in a given season. With 5 regular season losses and a regular season record of 23-5, you ain't talking about the #1 seed. Now say you ratcheted the difficult down a notch to four decent teams, but ones that WLU should beat, and you are talking about worst case record probably being 25-3 and you are in the discussion for the #1 seed and the home court that equates to. And beyond that, were you were ranked has a direct impact on whom you play in the E8...Want to avoid NW this coming season? Get a higher ranking. A 5-6 loss Atlantic Regional Champ WLU team has a pretty good chance of playing NW in the E8 game...3-4 loss Atlantic Regional Champ WLU team has a better chance of avoiding that.

Concerning WLU playing games v teams from Ohio, I THINK that they do count as "in-region." As I recall, there are two things that make this so. First, as the MEC has a team in Ohio, any team from Ohio counts as in-region. I also believe that the NCAA considers a game between two schools from states that border each other to be in-region. I could be off base on this but I recall a discussion on this from a number of years ago.

[Columbuseer]

Hummm...When I observed that WLU plays Fairmont, UC and WVS for two games every year so they don't really need to schedule tough OOC games to prepare for March, I was told that in-conference games didn't count. Only way to truly be good in March was to schedule tough OOC games.

I freely admit that I don't know the formula for inclusion into the regionals. However, every conference seems to claim the title of the toughest, most competitive conference. So OOC games against other conferences in your region would seem to give a team some added credibility (provided you win). It might be a hedge if you lose a game or two in conference.

In the regional broadcast, one of the announcers said it was a shame that playing nearby teams out of the region does not not benefit in the regional ranking. This was in reference to the potential great rivalries between WLU and Findlay, Walsh, Malone, etc.

I think Daemen is a return trip from the away game two years ago. Based on the earlier broadcaster's comment, does that mean that a win over Daemen does not help us in the regional ranking, but a loss would hurt us with respect to the W-L record?

[boatcapt]

Joe beat Bowie in 17-18. The only time they've lost to Bowie was in 15-16 (after Joe was up 23 at halftime). That's still one of the oddest games I've ever seen.

They lost to Findlay and Ferris State to open the season out in Indianapolis and then to Virginia State in a nail-biter a couple weeks later. That wasn't one of Joe's better teams. Ferris State beat IUP by 2 points -- and then went on to win the national title that season. So, they were obviously pretty good.

Hard to say how he'll schedule this year. We know Virginia State is one of the games. But, in crossover this year they play at Kutztown and at West Chester, and host Millersville, Shepherd and Shippensburg. So, that's a tough crossover slate this season. He probably doesn't need to take many more 'tough' games and he'll still have a strong SOS.

Hummm...When I observed that WLU plays Fairmont, UC and WVS for two games every year so they don't really need to schedule tough OOC games to prepare for March, I was told that in-conference games didn't count. Only way to truly be good in March was to schedule tough OOC games.

[boatcapt]

Oh come now...The narative of how Joe always schedules tough are legend on this board...just as is the implication that Crutch never scheduled tough games.

There are certain sacred cows on this board. They include in no particular order:

1. Crutch only scheduled cupcake games,
2. Joe always schedules tough,
3. IUP is "loaded,"
4. WLU has an incoming recruit who is GREAT,
5. The ONLY way to be good in March is to schedule tough in November.

[Chuck Norris]

Hahahaha...OK. The mythology of Joe never scheduling cupcake games and only scheduling tough presists in the minds of some!

[boatcapt]

Concord is never a cupcake game. They came here with Tommy Bolte, who as a first team All -American. They've also beat WL several times in the past 5-6 years. That's a solid program.

Hahahaha...OK. The mythology of Joe never scheduling cupcake games and only scheduling tough presists in the minds of some!

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Joe of old, yea, it is. But it seems after 2017-18 were he scheduled Findlay, Ferris and Bowie in three of its first four games, losing all three and missing the NCAA tourney, he learned his lesson. Since then he has started the season with Concord, and WV Wesleyan the last two seasons and scheduled other such luminaries as D3 Westminster among their first four games. Chalking up these early season W's the last two years against less than stellar competition, were was IUP seeded come NCAA tourney time??

Joe beat Bowie in 17-18. The only time they've lost to Bowie was in 15-16 (after Joe was up 23 at halftime). That's still one of the oddest games I've ever seen.

They lost to Findlay and Ferris State to open the season out in Indianapolis and then to Virginia State in a nail-biter a couple weeks later. That wasn't one of Joe's better teams. Ferris State beat IUP by 2 points -- and then went on to win the national title that season. So, they were obviously pretty good.

Hard to say how he'll schedule this year. We know Virginia State is one of the games. But, in crossover this year they play at Kutztown and at West Chester, and host Millersville, Shepherd and Shippensburg. So, that's a tough crossover slate this season. He probably doesn't need to take many more 'tough' games and he'll still have a strong SOS.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Joe of old, yea, it is. But it seems after 2017-18 were he scheduled Findlay, Ferris and Bowie in three of its first four games, losing all three and missing the NCAA tourney, he learned his lesson. Since then he has started the season with Concord, and WV Wesleyan the last two seasons and scheduled other such luminaries as D3 Westminster among their first four games. Chalking up these early season W's the last two years against less than stellar competition, were was IUP seeded come NCAA tourney time??

Concord is never a cupcake game. They came here with Tommy Bolte, who as a first team All -American. They've also beat WL several times in the past 5-6 years. That's a solid program.