West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[TopperNation]

Yes, WL had a cold shooting night, but the defense stepped up in a big way. I saw the first roster adjustment from Ben this season as he started Hinds over Sarson to begin the second half. I know it's early in the season but Hinds is looking really good and is outplaying Sarson at the moment, and may soon be moving into the starting line-up, which I know isn't a huge deal as WL plays different platoons, but I thought it was note worthy. Lanyc Shuler is looking more comfortable playing in the WL system as well.

[Layton]

Cold shooting night but this is the fastest and quickest team we’ve had since I’ve been following

[Ship69]

Wow. Two games in less than 12 hours in IL.
Would seem to give deep teams an unfair advantage.

Sometimes it did. It's interesting that Illinois, which was fully as crazy about HS basketball as Indiana when I was a kid, doesn't get notice Indiana gets about it. I think part of it is due to the state's college teams underperforming over the years.

The movie "Hoosiers" was based somewhat on the championship run of tiny Milan, Indiana, to that state's championship in 1954. Illinois actually had its own version of that two years earlier when Hebron, a tiny school with 98 students near the Wisconsin state line, defeated Quincy, a school of 1,500 for the state championship. Hebron was led by a pair of 6-3 twins, Paul and Phil Judson, and 6-11 center Bill Schulz.

Illinois High School basketball actually coined the term "Sweet Sixteen." That came from the tradition of sending the final 16 teams from the sectional tournaments to the University of Illinois campus to play the quarterfinals, semifinals, and finals. The NCAA tried to come after them about using the term, but the Illinois high school association was able to prove that it had used "Sweet Sixteen" first.

[Columbuseer]

Again, good analysis. Seton Hill did look like a tired team the second half. I certainly wouldn't want to play WL after having a tough game the night before, especially if WL has a relatively easy game the previous night. For a real grind, I remember when I was a kid in Illinois that they played the high school championship semifinals in the afternoon and the finals at night the same day. Teams that had a grinder in the afternoon could really get played out at night. I think they might still do that in Illinois.

Wow. Two games in less than 12 hours in IL.
Would seem to give deep teams an unfair advantage.

[Ship69]

A Dummy’s Observations on WLU vs Seton Hill 11/11/23 101-67 victory

Seton Hill had a good game plan. Despite having a tough OT win over Wheeling, the previous night, SH came out with great intensity. Acknowledging the possibility of fatigue, SH substituted more and with more frequency than against Wheeling. They played an aggressive zone defense with very active movement.

Their plan seemed to be to force WLU to settle for threes, deep into the shot clock. On offense, they also played aggressively, attacking the basket off the dribble and shooting or kicking the ball out for threes. However, SH was expending considerable energy with this approach.

WLU appeared to have somewhat of a hangover from the previous night’s extremely high level of performance, and was not matching SH’s energy. At the 18:20 mark and down 5-0, the Bravo Platoon replaces the Alpha Platoon.

They exerted great pressure, but WLU was still down 12-6 when Alpha Platoon reentered at 15:50.

In their unusual zone, which looked like a 1-3-1 or 2-3 hybrid, there is a large open area inside the foul circle, which appears briefly as the zone shifts, before it closes again. Finally, WLU started to flash to that area during that opening window and make an entry pass. Once receiving the pass and pivoting to face the goal, the zone can break down, leading to 8 ft shots and layups. Korte, West, and Woodward were especially adept at flashing to the foul line at the correct time to receive the pass.

WLU finally tied the game at 14:17, getting the lead for good at 21-20 at the 12:31 mark. The game remained tight, with the half ending with a 48-42 WLU lead.

However, despite frequent subbing, SH was starting to move more slowly. My guess is that the subs, who did not play much against Wheeling, were starting to get tired in this game.

Often, the fatigue effects of 2 games in two days has a significant impact in the second half. SH appeared to be wearing concrete shoes in the second half. By the first media time out at 14:36, WLU led 66-47. After halftime adjustments, WLU was carving up the zone by getting ball into the foul line area. By the 11:30 mark, WLU had extended the lead to 30 at 77-47. WLU had outscored SH 29-5. The largest lead was 39 at the 2:33 mark.

Keys to the game

- WLU started focusing on getting the ball inside the zone, rather than settling for threes.

- SH cracked against the press. WLU forced 27 steals and 34 turnovers, which negated SH out-rebounding WLU and matching WLU in shooting.

- The full court pressure disrupted SH’s offensive continuity. As SH got tired, WLU was dominating the boards and getting to every 50-50 ball.

- WLU only committed 11 turnovers, some of which were unforced, due to a rare lack of focus.

- WLU had a very good offensive efficiency of 121, somewhat below their historical average of 125.

WLU used a combination of platooning and selective substitution in the game.

The Alpha platoon was +11 in 4 shifts. The Bravo Platoon was +14 in 3 shifts.

The effective shooting % of some of the WLU players was incredibly good. This stat weighs the value of the 3-point shot 50% more than a 2-pt shot, which allows more effective comparison with post players, etc. A perfect score for a 2-pt shooter who does not miss is 100%. However, if the shooter only shoots threes and never misses, the maximum possible value is 150%.
Here were the top effective shooters for WLU:

West 83%

Montague 69%

Spadafora 64%

Korte 56%

Woodward 56%

Rasile 50%

D’Augustino 50%


Six players scored in double figures. Ten players saw at least 13 minutes of action, with only 3 players at 20 or more minutes (max of 25 minutes).

Seton Hill is a well-coached team with a good game plan. Their zone seemed effective and unusual. They could win quite a few games this year. But fatigue won out, along with WLU focusing on going inside against the zone.

Again, good analysis. Seton Hill did look like a tired team the second half. I certainly wouldn't want to play WL after having a tough game the night before, especially if WL has a relatively easy game the previous night. For a real grind, I remember when I was a kid in Illinois that they played the high school championship semifinals in the afternoon and the finals at night the same day. Teams that had a grinder in the afternoon could really get played out at night. I think they might still do that in Illinois.

[Columbuseer]

Noticed that upcoming opponent Angelo State, who was one of the better teams in the country last season, picked up a loss in their second game of the season to New Mexico Highlands, who only won 11 games last year. Angelo State won their first game against Fort Lewis, who was also one of the best teams in the country last year.

Thanks. Looked at box score. ASU shot horrendously - 32% fg, 25% from Three in second half. 20 turnovers for the game. Lost 68-65. Those nights happen to everyone.

5 guys got most of minutes.

[Topper_Hopper]

Noticed that upcoming opponent Angelo State, who was one of the better teams in the country last season, picked up a loss in their second game of the season to New Mexico Highlands, who only won 11 games last year. Angelo State won their first game against Fort Lewis, who was also one of the best teams in the country last year.

[Columbuseer]

A Dummy’s Observations on WLU vs Seton Hill 11/11/23 101-67 victory

Seton Hill had a good game plan. Despite having a tough OT win over Wheeling, the previous night, SH came out with great intensity. Acknowledging the possibility of fatigue, SH substituted more and with more frequency than against Wheeling. They played an aggressive zone defense with very active movement.

Their plan seemed to be to force WLU to settle for threes, deep into the shot clock. On offense, they also played aggressively, attacking the basket off the dribble and shooting or kicking the ball out for threes. However, SH was expending considerable energy with this approach.

WLU appeared to have somewhat of a hangover from the previous night’s extremely high level of performance, and was not matching SH’s energy. At the 18:20 mark and down 5-0, the Bravo Platoon replaces the Alpha Platoon.

They exerted great pressure, but WLU was still down 12-6 when Alpha Platoon reentered at 15:50.

In their unusual zone, which looked like a 1-3-1 or 2-3 hybrid, there is a large open area inside the foul circle, which appears briefly as the zone shifts, before it closes again. Finally, WLU started to flash to that area during that opening window and make an entry pass. Once receiving the pass and pivoting to face the goal, the zone can break down, leading to 8 ft shots and layups. Korte, West, and Woodward were especially adept at flashing to the foul line at the correct time to receive the pass.

WLU finally tied the game at 14:17, getting the lead for good at 21-20 at the 12:31 mark. The game remained tight, with the half ending with a 48-42 WLU lead.

However, despite frequent subbing, SH was starting to move more slowly. My guess is that the subs, who did not play much against Wheeling, were starting to get tired in this game.

Often, the fatigue effects of 2 games in two days has a significant impact in the second half. SH appeared to be wearing concrete shoes in the second half. By the first media time out at 14:36, WLU led 66-47. After halftime adjustments, WLU was carving up the zone by getting ball into the foul line area. By the 11:30 mark, WLU had extended the lead to 30 at 77-47. WLU had outscored SH 29-5. The largest lead was 39 at the 2:33 mark.

Keys to the game

- WLU started focusing on getting the ball inside the zone, rather than settling for threes.

- SH cracked against the press. WLU forced 27 steals and 34 turnovers, which negated SH out-rebounding WLU and matching WLU in shooting.

- The full court pressure disrupted SH’s offensive continuity. As SH got tired, WLU was dominating the boards and getting to every 50-50 ball.

- WLU only committed 11 turnovers, some of which were unforced, due to a rare lack of focus.

- WLU had a very good offensive efficiency of 121, somewhat below their historical average of 125.

WLU used a combination of platooning and selective substitution in the game.

The Alpha platoon was +11 in 4 shifts. The Bravo Platoon was +14 in 3 shifts.

The effective shooting % of some of the WLU players was incredibly good. This stat weighs the value of the 3-point shot 50% more than a 2-pt shot, which allows more effective comparison with post players, etc. A perfect score for a 2-pt shooter who does not miss is 100%. However, if the shooter only shoots threes and never misses, the maximum possible value is 150%.
Here were the top effective shooters for WLU:

West 83%

Montague 69%

Spadafora 64%

Korte 56%

Woodward 56%

Rasile 50%

D’Augustino 50%


Six players scored in double figures. Ten players saw at least 13 minutes of action, with only 3 players at 20 or more minutes (max of 25 minutes).

Seton Hill is a well-coached team with a good game plan. Their zone seemed effective and unusual. They could win quite a few games this year. But fatigue won out, along with WLU focusing on going inside against the zone.

[boatcapt]

I have long distal philanges and flexor hallicus brevis with a higher than normal number of fast twitch muscle fiber in my Peroneus brevis. Pretty sure I'm on the radar of several mid-majors and all the big name DII's because of it.

[Columbuseer]

Trying to get a leg up on the femur discussion...

A long femur indicates a long vastus and hamstring.
A long tibia is also a benefit as it means a longer gastrocnemius. These muscles play a major role in jumping.

Long femur plus long tibia mean long legs relative to torso in most cases (excluding Andre the Giant).

Of course, more fast twitch muscle fibers also help.

The article below goes into more detail on the optimum muscle distribution for jumping.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...d%20hamstrings.

Biomechanical engineering studies these types of questions.

[boatcapt]

That is a very interesting, and difficult question. The various attributes could be axes on a kiviat diagram, aka a radar chart.

Possible axes:

-standing broad jump - measures explosiveness, which are affected by fast twitch muscles and long femurs

- shuttle run with and without ball - measures ability to change directions and acceleration, which relies on coordination, reaction time and friction contact area (foot soles). Hand size helps controlling ball when dribbling due to large friction contact area.

- arm length - helps on defense and rebounding

- height outside average for basketball - impact depends on team style and position

- strength

- stamina - measured by VO2 capacity

- decision making - moving without basketball, reading defenses, passing, etc. Critical at wlu

Every style may emphasize different radar chart shapes for an ideal match, as do players.

Imho wilt was a player who maxed out every axis.

wilt won triple jump, high jump and 400m at Kansas. He could bench 500 lb.

For jumping, one needs fast twitch muscles for explosion and long femurs to increase force and range of motion. In nature, look at grasshoppers. In basketball, one could look at body types of wilt chamberlain or Dominique Wilkins. Wilt had a 40+ inch vertical, and could touch top of backboard. Late in career, he blocked Kareem's sky hook .

Hand size - advantageous for controlling the ball when dribbling. Wilt once blocked and caught a shot in mid air with one hand. he could palm a basketball with two fingers and a thumb.

I've never heard of femur length as an indicator of basketball success. Sounds very WWII Prenologic were they measured bumps on the head to predict mental traits.

Just a casual observation. As a young lad, I played a little basketball. I wasn't terribly good at it overall but one thing I was good at was jumping. As the saying goes, I could jump out of the gym. I could get my 5'9" 170 pound carcus over the rim to my elbow. While I've never had my femur measured, they seem to be a quite normal length for a fellow my size...certainly not a length were a casual observer who pays attention to a persons feamur length would go, WOW, he has LONG femurs! I bet he can JUMP!!!

[Columbuseer]

"long femurs allows him to elevate to dunk over people"...We have officially jumped the shark in recruit evaluations!!!!

Which player measurement is most important in determining college success - Hand Size, wing span, height, foot size or femur length??

That is a very interesting, and difficult question. The various attributes could be axes on a kiviat diagram, aka a radar chart.

Possible axes:

-standing broad jump - measures explosiveness, which are affected by fast twitch muscles and long femurs

- shuttle run with and without ball - measures ability to change directions and acceleration, which relies on coordination, reaction time and friction contact area (foot soles). Hand size helps controlling ball when dribbling due to large friction contact area.

- arm length - helps on defense and rebounding

- height outside average for basketball - impact depends on team style and position

- strength

- stamina - measured by VO2 capacity

- decision making - moving without basketball, reading defenses, passing, etc. Critical at wlu

Every style may emphasize different radar chart shapes for an ideal match, as do players.

Imho wilt was a player who maxed out every axis.

wilt won triple jump, high jump and 440 yd dash at Kansas. He could bench 500 lb.

For jumping, one needs fast twitch muscles for explosion and long femurs to increase force and range of motion. In nature, look at grasshoppers. In basketball, one could look at body types of wilt chamberlain or Dominique Wilkins. Wilt had a 40+ inch vertical, and could touch top of backboard. Late in career, he blocked Kareem's sky hook .

Hand size - advantageous for controlling the ball when dribbling. Wilt once blocked and caught a shot in mid air with one hand. he could palm a basketball with two fingers and a thumb.

[boatcapt]

"long femurs allows him to elevate to dunk over people"...We have officially jumped the shark in recruit evaluations!!!!

Which player measurement is most important in determining college success - Hand Size, wing span, height, foot size or femur length??

[Columbuseer]

FYI 3rd 2024 wlu recruit

Kameron Tinsley 6-7 lefty

Kameron Tinsley, strong , high flyer from VA power Cave Spring hs near Roanoke, VA. They defeated unbeaten Northside who went on to win va class 3 state title.

Great range, one of better shooters in VA. Long femurs allows him to elevate to dunk over people off the drive. Great match for positionless basketball.

Handles ball well. Had d1 interest. Visited IUPUI.
Very high ceiling. Size, athletic skills, handles, and shooting could create matchup problems long term.

https://www.hudl.com/profile/14120247

Here are Sept 2023 highlights from scrimmage against Albemarle hs. 25 pts, 11 reb, 5 assists
https://www.hudl.com/video/3/1412024...df8b0f2496bccc

Post from vaprepsrivals

Cave Spring 2024 wing Kameron Tinsley has committed to play his College Hoops at West Liberty University (D-2 in WV). One of the top shooters in VA, Tinsley helped the Knights captured the VHSL Class 3 state title as a sophomore in 2021-22.

[boatcapt]

2-0 after a first weekend of dominating 40+ point wins. NEXT in line for WLU is a Chestnut Hill squad that completed their first weekend 0-2. They have shown the ability in the past to steal their 3'rd game on the road.

Hard to say this is a trap game this early in the season, but it has the earmarking of one. WLU has won it's last two games in crushing fashion, playing at home against a team that's 0-2. The many new faces in prominent rolls with WLU might be feeling a little full of themselves and might be susceptible to a desperate team nocking them down a peg or two.