West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[Scrub]

Watched cedarville last couple of years but not this year. I will be very surprised if they can challenge nova. In fact it could get very ugly if they get tired.

Oh absolutely. I don't expect Cedarville to be able to beat (or perhaps even hang with) Nova. However, I am suggesting they're not quite the patsy Trevecca was. In other words, my read on Crutch's scheduling philosophy is that he most often schedules a few OOC patsies to open the season and puts more respectable and/or challenging games during the Christmas break. I don't think you would disagree that Cedarville & Dominican are more respected opponents than Trevecca or Staten Island. Granted, he's not scheduling NW Missouri or anything like that, but I wouldn't qualify Cedarville as a patsy. It's a storied and respected program that typically puts a reasonably good product on the court.

[Columbuseer]

But as I mentioned above, it appears as though Crutch's tougher OOC games are coming during the Christmas break. He has Cedarville (a typically solid program that puts a good product on the floor year after year) and top-25 Dominican coming up. I'm not suggesting that he'll lose those games, but it does seem as though he tends to pick one or two tougher OOC games and bury them during the Christmas break OOC period. He did that with some regularity when at WLU, playing the likes of Bellarmine, Lynn, Northern Kentucky, St. Leo, etc. during Christmas break. I expect his next two games to be a bit tougher than he had it when he faced Staten Island or Trevecca. In fact, like Nova, Cedarville also buried Trevecca. So, it stands to reason that Cedarville could be a bit tougher opponent.

Watched cedarville last couple of years but not this year. I will be very surprised if they can challenge nova. In fact it could get very ugly if they get tired.

[Scrub]

Here's a comparison of Saint Crutch's early-season conference and non-conference slate at Nova Southeastern this year. Make of it what you will...

Non-Conference Games (Record 4-0)
Avg. Points Scored: 135
Avg. Points Allowed: 81

Sunshine Conference Games (Record 2-1)
Avg. Points Scored: 86
Avg. Points Allowed: 80

But as I mentioned above, it appears as though Crutch's tougher OOC games are coming during the Christmas break. He has Cedarville (a typically solid program that puts a good product on the floor year after year) and top-25 Dominican coming up. I'm not suggesting that he'll lose those games, but it does seem as though he tends to pick one or two tougher OOC games and bury them during the Christmas break OOC period. He did that with some regularity when at WLU, playing the likes of Bellarmine, Lynn, Northern Kentucky, St. Leo, etc. during Christmas break. I expect his next two games to be a bit tougher than he had it when he faced Staten Island or Trevecca. In fact, like Nova, Cedarville also buried Trevecca. So, it stands to reason that Cedarville could be a bit tougher opponent.

[timbertopper]

Here's a comparison of Saint Crutch's early-season conference and non-conference slate at Nova Southeastern this year. Make of it what you will...

Non-Conference Games (Record 4-0)
Avg. Points Scored: 135
Avg. Points Allowed: 81

Sunshine Conference Games (Record 2-1)
Avg. Points Scored: 86
Avg. Points Allowed: 80

[Columbuseer]

I would counter that WLUs style depends on close coordination among all players from 1 through 10. It's not something that is developed through pre season practice alone In past seasons, WLU has used their early OOC games as almost an extended preseason. Were they would build team chemistry and identify lineups that maximized the effectiveness of the team. Under the new scheme, WLU seems to be intent on scheduling tough OOC games early which limits their ability to use the early season as they did in the past. This seems to have a domino effect with the team a little less prepared for each game.

I wonder if Martinsburg et.al. would play those tough out of state games if losing them had the potential of keeping them out of the State Playoffs?

LOL. Given that a losing record can probably get u into the AAA playoffs, I agree that Martinsburg had little to worry about in terms of playoffs. That Preston versus Martinsburg was shocking. 84-0 at the half!

WCC was a #10 seed and had to play away games in playoffs.
PA had to play several away games in playoffs due to seeding.

Of course I cannot read their minds. All I know is what I have heard coaches say when interviewed. They felt it helped them when (if) they were in tight games in playoffs. I know that WL gets few takers when proposing OOC games with good teams, or even D1 teams that are relatively close. I think you just have a different perspective on OOC than the WL coaches, which is OK of course.

[Scrub]

I would counter that WLUs style depends on close coordination among all players from 1 through 10. It's not something that is developed through pre season practice alone In past seasons, WLU has used their early OOC games as almost an extended preseason. Were they would build team chemistry and identify lineups that maximized the effectiveness of the team. Under the new scheme, WLU seems to be intent on scheduling tough OOC games early which limits their ability to use the early season as they did in the past. This seems to have a domino effect with the team a little less prepared for each game.

I wonder if Martinsburg et.al. would play those tough out of state games if losing them had the potential of keeping them out of the State Playoffs?

Why, then, would Crutch have scheduled a rough Findlay team for the third game of the season when he had arguably his best team yet in 11-12? Boat, the narrative you're building makes plenty of sense in the abstract. And there was likely a time early in his tenure that Crutch thought that way. But it's not how Crutch was doing things in the era of his absolute best teams once his system was already a well-oiled machine (i.e., the Alex Falk era). I'm just not sure your narrative--as much sense as it may make--is entirely borne out by the facts of Crutch's tenure here.

It does seem as though Crutch tended to save his tough OOC games for Christmas break more often than not (11-12 notwithstanding when he opened with ESU, Ship, & Findlay in a row). But even his Christmas break OOC schedules still risked 1-2 losses before the calendar turned and before the guys had gelled in the system.

[boatcapt]

I can see your point from a purely pragmatic point of view.
However Some coaches do not share your view. On the contrary they think it is an advantage.
WL coach past and present. Their problem is finding takers.
wheeling central catholic football coach
Martinsburg Football coach - Travel out of state to play top teams even though they had a 50 game winning streak
legendary Pulaski academy football coach Kevin Kelley - as #4 seed they won Arkansas 5a state title 63-21 over unbeaten #1 seed (PA is the team that never punts). They travel out of state to play very tough teams.

I would counter that WLUs style depends on close coordination among all players from 1 through 10. It's not something that is developed through pre season practice alone In past seasons, WLU has used their early OOC games as almost an extended preseason. Were they would build team chemistry and identify lineups that maximized the effectiveness of the team. Under the new scheme, WLU seems to be intent on scheduling tough OOC games early which limits their ability to use the early season as they did in the past. This seems to have a domino effect with the team a little less prepared for each game.

I wonder if Martinsburg et.al. would play those tough out of state games if losing them had the potential of keeping them out of the State Playoffs?

[Columbuseer]

I would encourage fans to remember that it is the level of play in March that really counts.
There are going to be bumps in the road this year on the way to March. Also, some MEC teams have their best team in years, which appear to have been built to challenge the West Lib style..

Can you image the challenge of having 6 new players who, although very talented, have to unlearn all the bad habits of years of AAU ball? For example, pressing teams rely on every person thnking as one, or the press is easily broken. Moving without the ball on offense and rapid passing rather than dribble drive is a new concept for many.
It will take time.

Players need to continue to improve their skills in all phases and give up good shots for great shots for a teammate.

[Columbuseer]

I disagree. Had we not played Damien, we would have been higher rated when we lost to WVW...probably top 3. That loss would have cost us perhaps 5 places. Loss to UC would probably cost us 10 positions from there which would have resulted in still being in the top 25.

My biggest issue is the number of losses which is being driven by an eronious belief that playing a tough schedule early in a five month season will somehow make the team stronger come playoff time. My belief, and it seems to be born out almost every year, is that the MEC schedule is plenty tough to prepare the Toppers for tourney time so there is no need to seek out tough OOC teams and run the risk of early losses that do nothing but give us lower tourney seeding.

I can see your point from a purely pragmatic point of view.
However Some coaches do not share your view. On the contrary they think it is an advantage.
WL coach past and present. Their problem is finding takers.
wheeling central catholic football coach
Martinsburg Football coach - Travel out of state to play top teams even though they had a 50 game winning streak
legendary Pulaski academy football coach Kevin Kelley - as #4 seed they won Arkansas 5a state title 63-21 over unbeaten #1 seed (PA is the team that never punts). They travel out of state to play very tough teams.

[boatcapt]

i agree with you.One could argue that playing Daemen kept us in the top 25 with two losses, Had we been 6-2 with losses to wcwc and uc I don't believe we would have stayed in top 25.I did not see the game, so my comments are based on watching the earlier games.

We are vulnerable in the post against big men, especially when WLU is also having an off-shooting night. We also have to reduce the reach-in fouls and improve situational awareness on the part of some players. If our big defenders (Will or Marlon) get in foul trouble, we are vulnerable.because our backup big defenders need more experience to be ready to play against top flight big men.
Every team has vulnerabilities and strengths. Ours is playing bigs with good shooting guards when we are having an off-shooting night or getting in foul trouble at key positions.

I disagree. Had we not played Damien, we would have been higher rated when we lost to WVW...probably top 3. That loss would have cost us perhaps 5 places. Loss to UC would probably cost us 10 positions from there which would have resulted in still being in the top 25.

My biggest issue is the number of losses which is being driven by an eronious belief that playing a tough schedule early in a five month season will somehow make the team stronger come playoff time. My belief, and it seems to be born out almost every year, is that the MEC schedule is plenty tough to prepare the Toppers for tourney time so there is no need to seek out tough OOC teams and run the risk of early losses that do nothing but give us lower tourney seeding.

[Scrub]

Did not see UC game.
Malik and Patrick usually come in together. Malik is averaging 17 mins and Patrick is averaging 21 minutes. I can se Malik shutting down opposing big guards in March. Future is is very bright for both players IMHO.Looking at UC stats, we had relatively few assists (10) and got beaten on the glass.
I am hoping that Alessandro and Hazelbaker will get more comfortable and earn more minutes by March, which could really help us against bigger teams.

They're going to have to get minutes (earned or not), as Moore went down yesterday late, and it seemed serious enough that he might not be back immediately. At the very end of the game (I was only able to catch the final 7 minutes or so--so this part I do know), Alessandro was tasked with defending McManus.

[Columbuseer]

I watched the game while sitting at gymnastics for three hours.

I guess I'll start by saying Charleston is a pretty good team. In my opinion, they are an NCAA-caliber team -- or very close to it. That is a very strong defensive team. The guy they had on Bolon all night is a top-notch, shutdown defender. Bolon was visibly frustrated as that game wore on. The announcers called him the best defender in the MEC. They also held WL down to just 14 attempts from deep (they made 7 of them).

As the announcers told us (over and over) Charleston did a great job of keeping the game at their pace.

The blatant difference in the game in my eyes was Charleston just dominated the glass (40-24) and second-chance points (WL had just 3 second-chance points all game). I don't watch WL enough but something is off with this year's press. The games I've watched it's not causing the 'chaos' it has in the the past. Granted, I've only watched the Daemen and Charleston games. Charleston broke it with ease last night as did Daemen.

Keith Williams had a career night (27 points, 9 boards). He was sizzling in the second half. Charleston isn't real deep. They played about 6 guys the bulk of the game. They played their true freshmen big, Denbow, 10 minutes as the 7th man, but he was a disaster last night. His stat line had 2 turnovers and that was it.

I don't understand how Malik McKinney only got 5 minutes last night. I would have put him on Williams -- especially in the second half. I can't see him staying there next year if he's going to be such a bit player.
I
Boswell and Dyer had a combined 5 points in 55 minutes on the floor. From what I've seen, I don't overly know what Boswell's role is in the offense.

I don't know .. McKinney and Robinson could be a really strong duo playing together. But, that would mean some of the more traditional WL guard types would have to sit. McKinney and Robinson aren't going to be out there popping treys all night ... but they are both extremely good slashers, etc., and would be a huge upgrade on defense.

Did not see UC game.
Malik and Patrick usually come in together. Malik is averaging 17 mins and Patrick is averaging 21 minutes. I can se Malik shutting down opposing big guards in March. Future is is very bright for both players IMHO.Looking at UC stats, we had relatively few assists (10) and got beaten on the glass.
I am hoping that Alessandro and Hazelbaker will get more comfortable and earn more minutes by March, which could really help us against bigger teams.

[Dirtybird]

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I watched the game while sitting at gymnastics for three hours.

I guess I'll start by saying Charleston is a pretty good team. In my opinion, they are an NCAA-caliber team -- or very close to it. That is a very strong defensive team. The guy they had on Bolon all night is a top-notch, shutdown defender. Bolon was visibly frustrated as that game wore on. The announcers called him the best defender in the MEC. They also held WL down to just 14 attempts from deep (they made 7 of them).

As the announcers told us (over and over) Charleston did a great job of keeping the game at their pace.

The blatant difference in the game in my eyes was Charleston just dominated the glass (40-24) and second-chance points (WL had just 3 second-chance points all game). I don't watch WL enough but something is off with this year's press. The games I've watched it's not causing the 'chaos' it has in the the past. Granted, I've only watched the Daemen and Charleston games. Charleston broke it with ease last night as did Daemen.

Keith Williams had a career night (27 points, 9 boards). He was sizzling in the second half. Charleston isn't real deep. They played about 6 guys the bulk of the game. They played their true freshmen big, Denbow, 10 minutes as the 7th man, but he was a disaster last night. His stat line had 2 turnovers and that was it.

I don't understand how Malik McKinney only got 5 minutes last night. I would have put him on Williams -- especially in the second half. I can't see him staying there next year if he's going to be such a bit player.

Boswell and Dyer had a combined 5 points in 55 minutes on the floor. From what I've seen, I don't overly know what Boswell's role is in the offense.

I don't know .. McKinney and Robinson could be a really strong duo playing together. But, that would mean some of the more traditional WL guard types would have to sit. McKinney and Robinson aren't going to be out there popping treys all night ... but they are both extremely good slashers, etc., and would be a huge upgrade on defense.

[Columbuseer]

And no, Boat, playing Daemen had nothing to do with these losses. Gotta take care of business in the conference. Crutch picked up losses to the likes of Findlay and Bellarmine over the years in the non-conference. But Crutch's teams tended to take care of business in the conference. I do believe the conference has strengthened and caught up a bit. WLU isn't taking anybody by surprise anymore. But Howlett is going to have to find a formula for getting through the conference. Another tough test with WVSU coming Saturday. Yikes.

i agree with you.One could argue that playing Daemen kept us in the top 25 with two losses, Had we been 6-2 with losses to wcwc and uc I don't believe we would have stayed in top 25.I did not see the game, so my comments are based on watching the earlier games.

We are vulnerable in the post against big men, especially when WLU is also having an off-shooting night. We also have to reduce the reach-in fouls and improve situational awareness on the part of some players. If our big defenders (Will or Marlon) get in foul trouble, we are vulnerable.because our backup big defenders need more experience to be ready to play against top flight big men.
Every team has vulnerabilities and strengths. Ours is playing bigs with good shooting guards when we are having an off-shooting night or getting in foul trouble at key positions.