West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

It's a risk but last year was nothing new. IUP has done that for the past decade. No doubt, it has cost them hosting a couple times. This isn't just an IUP thing. Fairmont State always schedules tough. Several do.

High risk, high reward vs lower risk, high reward. WLU has always done things "differently" than other teams or the traditional ways of doing things AND they have been very successful at it. Now it appears, at least in scheduling, we are giving in to conventional wisdom and changing what we have been successful at. As happens in almost everything, a change in one area results in a change in other unanticipated areas. If we continue to schedule tough games to open the year, we are going to have to change how we approach the early season and the pre season camp. Also, you have to face the reality that there is a good chance you could have two more losses than you might typically have which will probably equal lower chances of hosting the Regional Tourney.

But weather it is a good idea or not, it seems like we have changed. We'll see starting this year weather that change produces good results and starting with the next recruiting class, we'll see if there are other unanticipated changes this focus on the early season causes.

[Chuck Norris]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Nope. I think Ben was telling the truth. I also have read that you are the ONLY WL poster complaining about them not playing cupcakes.

[Chuck Norris]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Hahahahaha!!! What do you think he's going to say? "Gee, we made a mistake and scheduled too hard this year. Next year we are going to go back to what worked." I wonder what Joe would say if you asked if he regretted scheduling such a tough OOC slate last year that he didn't even make the playoffs? Doubt he's say, "Oh I definently should have scheduled easier opponents." That's not what coaches would ever do...at least not in public!!

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Hahahahaha!!! What do you think he's going to say? "Gee, we made a mistake and scheduled too hard this year. Next year we are going to go back to what worked." I wonder what Joe would say if you asked if he regretted scheduling such a tough OOC slate last year that he didn't even make the playoffs? Doubt he's say, "Oh I definently should have scheduled easier opponents." That's not what coaches would ever do...at least not in public!!

Nope. I think Ben was telling the truth. I also have read that you are the ONLY WL poster complaining about them not playing cupcakes.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Hahahahaha!!! What do you think he's going to say? "Gee, we made a mistake and scheduled too hard this year. Next year we are going to go back to what worked." I wonder what Joe would say if you asked if he regretted scheduling such a tough OOC slate last year that he didn't even make the playoffs? Doubt he's say, "Oh I definently should have scheduled easier opponents." That's not what coaches would ever do...at least not in public!!

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

And if they do, so be it. But as IUP learned last season, scheduling tough has a much greater down side than scheduling easier opening contests.

It's a risk but last year was nothing new. IUP has done that for the past decade. No doubt, it has cost them hosting a couple times. This isn't just an IUP thing. Fairmont State always schedules tough. Several do.

[IUP Extra Mile]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Some people like to argue for argument's sake...

one man's opinion: I prefer WLU to play a tougher OOC schedule than they typically have (no more cheyney, no more seton hill, no more Point Park). And if playing a solid PSAC team at home costs them hosting or costs them entry to the regional, they weren't great anyway.
I think a quality loss is still looked at positively, as long as there are not too many of them...

If anyone on the board was consulted by the schedule makers at WL to see who we thought they should play, raise your hand?
Go head, don't be shy.

Ok, I think we can assume that WL scheduled who they wanted this year, without getting any inputs from the messageboard folks, so I'm pretty sure, WL wanted to go this direction with tougher opponents. Boat, you're narrative about WL caving in to what a few message board folks wanted, doesn't fly with me.. They scheduled them...and let's sit back and enjoy the games and the rivalary's and debate other things...
this is tired.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

And if they do, so be it. But as IUP learned last season, scheduling tough has a much greater down side than scheduling easier opening contests.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

[Chuck Norris]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

And I would add that scheduling easier teams is low risk, high reward. I would argue that the fact that the MEC is much stronger actually argues for scheduling OOC games you have a really good chance of winning BECAUSE you are quite probably going to lose a couple of games to some really, really good teams in conference play...couple those two regular season conference losses with a couple of OOC losses because you scheduled tough and you are possible in a place were you don't want to be...even if you have a high SOS. Have a truly down year for WLU (four in conf losses) and lose two OOC because you scheduled hard and now you are sitting on the bubble with a real chance of sitting at home.

You also have to look at how teams develop and how coaches approach preparing their teams. Since Crutch came on board and now with Ben at the helm, WLU seems to have approached the first couple of games as almost and extension of pre-season practice. Lineups are juggled...different on-court combinations are tried...minute allocations are determined. In short, the way they approach seasons is quite different than say, IUP. IUP practices and prepares for tough opening games because that is what Joe wants. Pretty much the starting lineup is set and the minute allocations are penciled out long before the opening tip. So if WLU is going to continue to schedule tough games right out of the gate, they are going to have to change how they approach the season to do things they haven't done in MANY years...OR run the risk of losing one or both opening weekend games every year.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Good discussion. Lots of good points on both sides. Based on input from folks and looking at prior results:
1. Today an Easy out of conference schedule forces you to have at least 4 or 5 fewer losses in order to host. sos is given serious consideration, provided you won some of these games and did not have Blowout losses. But if u get upset in conference by mediocre team then excessive losses to other strong teams early in season can work against u by lowering won-loss record relative to other teams.
2. Gap between Wlu and rest of conference is much narrower and conference is deeper and stronger (See results from this weekend versus pa teams). Fairmont and others are recruiting and signing players that wlu really wanted. There are more good coaches too. Therefore days of 31-1 and many blowout wins are probably gone, which Overcame weak sos.
3. Imho Even with strong schedule it will probably be difficult to host with more than 6 losses. So you can go overboard with sos to your detriment.
4. Tough schedule is high risk and high reward scenario. Imho Guess is sweet spot is a max of 2 or 3 tough teams and ideally you avoid playing them all at beginning of season.

And I would add that scheduling easier teams is low risk, high reward. I would argue that the fact that the MEC is much stronger actually argues for scheduling OOC games you have a really good chance of winning BECAUSE you are quite probably going to lose a couple of games to some really, really good teams in conference play...couple those two regular season conference losses with a couple of OOC losses because you scheduled tough and you are possible in a place were you don't want to be...even if you have a high SOS. Have a truly down year for WLU (four in conf losses) and lose two OOC because you scheduled hard and now you are sitting on the bubble with a real chance of sitting at home.

You also have to look at how teams develop and how coaches approach preparing their teams. Since Crutch came on board and now with Ben at the helm, WLU seems to have approached the first couple of games as almost and extension of pre-season practice. Lineups are juggled...different on-court combinations are tried...minute allocations are determined. In short, the way they approach seasons is quite different than say, IUP. IUP practices and prepares for tough opening games because that is what Joe wants. Pretty much the starting lineup is set and the minute allocations are penciled out long before the opening tip. So if WLU is going to continue to schedule tough games right out of the gate, they are going to have to change how they approach the season to do things they haven't done in MANY years...OR run the risk of losing one or both opening weekend games every year.

Also missed in this WLU needs to schedule hard teams discussion is the fact that King University is on the schedule this year (as they were last). King was a playoff team from Conf Carolinas last year and has been picked to finish #1 in CC this year.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Good discussion. Lots of good points on both sides. Based on input from folks and looking at prior results:
1. Today an Easy out of conference schedule forces you to have at least 4 or 5 fewer losses in order to host. sos is given serious consideration, provided you won some of these games and did not have Blowout losses. But if u get upset in conference by mediocre team then excessive losses to other strong teams early in season can work against u by lowering won-loss record relative to other teams.
2. Gap between Wlu and rest of conference is much narrower and conference is deeper and stronger (See results from this weekend versus pa teams). Fairmont and others are recruiting and signing players that wlu really wanted. There are more good coaches too. Therefore days of 31-1 and many blowout wins are probably gone, which Overcame weak sos.
3. Imho Even with strong schedule it will probably be difficult to host with more than 6 losses. So you can go overboard with sos to your detriment.
4. Tough schedule is high risk and high reward scenario. Imho Guess is sweet spot is a max of 2 or 3 tough teams and ideally you avoid playing them all at beginning of season.

[Chuck Norris]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

And if we finish the regular season with 4 losses on the season vice 2 and a #3 seed as opposed to a legit chance to host the region, what have we really gotten besides the ability to say we played two tough games to open the season?

What going 1-1 to start the season vs the usual 2-0 has done is open the possibilities for a bunch of teams to host the region which is exactly what outsiders want. If WLU scheduling easy to open the season has become such a hamstring on WLU hosting the region, you would think that fans of other programs would want WLU to continue to do just that. Fact that so many fans of other teams have advocated for years for WLU to play tough early season games should tell WLU fans something. I personally want IUP to open the season vs the #1 and #2 ranked teams in the country...not because I want IUP to be better, but because I want them to be 0-2 and that increases MY teams chances of hosting the Regionals. If there is a team in my region that consistently goes through the season with 2 losses, I'm going to want them to play harder teams not because I want them to be stronger, but because I want them to have more losses which increases MY teams chances (that is, unless my team gives in to pressure and schedules and losses hard games ourselves).

Anytime a fan of a competitor program advocates for my team to change what has proven to be a successful formula for hosting and winning the Region and having deep playoff runs with multiple final four appearances, I'm a little skeptical that they truly have my teams best interest at heart.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Lol it's your thread.

You don't have to scroll too far in history to know our opinion. Joe goes a little too crazy. I'd prefer a maybe 3-hard 2-easy split in non-conference.

Sounds like your own people agree with Ben.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Not talking about IUP. Specifically, WL and getting bumped last year.

OK...Don't want to talk about the effect IUP's tough early schedule had on them last year. That's cool and understandable.