St. Francis (PA)

[Bballfan]

What does that tell you? That ultimately college sports still exist as an opportunity to give individuals opportunities (many of which are from impoverished areas) to use athletics as a means to obtain a college degree to hopefully springboard themselves to a better life. Say what you want about the NCAA, and there's certainly a lot that you can say, but they allowed for millions of kids to attend and graduate college who otherwise wouldn't have had that opportunity. The 20-30 elite athletic factories in higher education are too narrow minded to identify that the decisions they are making are leading to a downstream effect that will result in the reduction of scholarship opportunities for thousands, eventually millions, of student athletes.

110% agree! What is being lost in all the chatter about top football and basketball players making all this money, revenue sharing, etc. is that fact that there are 1,000's of student athletes across the country that use athletics as a way to obtain a degree at a top school to better themselves for the future. The football and bball players just want MORE MORE MORE and if colleges start cutting sports and programs, it is going to disenfranchise a lot of poor individuals who otherwise couldn't afford to go to college and live the dream. Sad what is happening.

But yes, headed to a very dark place as the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and it is ruining college athletics as a whole.

[Fightingscot82]

I think many of these schools (even those in D2) are about to get out of the scholarship sports business and drop to D3. There's no ROI for it really. I listened to a very interesting podcast yesterday that spoke about this. And this is going to blow the minds of everybody here who just encourage players to "GO CHASE THE BAG!!!!!!"

Currently, about 1 in 80 college football players make a dime from playing college football. Believe that or don't, but the vast majority of football and basketball players aren't getting paid. It's just stupid money at a few schools.

What does that tell you? That ultimately college sports still exist as an opportunity to give individuals opportunities (many of which are from impoverished areas) to use athletics as a means to obtain a college degree to hopefully springboard themselves to a better life. Say what you want about the NCAA, and there's certainly a lot that you can say, but they allowed for millions of kids to attend and graduate college who otherwise wouldn't have had that opportunity. The 20-30 elite athletic factories in higher education are too narrow minded to identify that the decisions they are making are leading to a downstream effect that will result in the reduction of scholarship opportunities for thousands, eventually millions, of student athletes.

There's tons of ROI. If your program doesn't bring in big time revenue to fund itself, then you see football as an enrollment driver. Colleges in our area need men, especially Black men. Football is a proven strategy to help that. They still pay tuition - net tuition paid by the team is almost always at least double the cost of running the program - and that's before considering how football is almost exclusively living on campus to start and bringing in housing & meal revenue needed to hit contract minimums.

[IUP24]

110% agree! What is being lost in all the chatter about top football and basketball players making all this money, revenue sharing, etc. is that fact that there are 1,000's of student athletes across the country that use athletics as a way to obtain a degree at a top school to better themselves for the future. The football and bball players just want MORE MORE MORE and if colleges start cutting sports and programs, it is going to disenfranchise a lot of poor individuals who otherwise couldn't afford to go to college and live the dream. Sad what is happening.

But yes, headed to a very dark place as the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and it is ruining college athletics as a whole.

As somebody who has read way more than I should on the entire model and philosophy associated with the revenue sharing approach, I truly believe it can be a net positive at that level. I think if all goes how it should, or is supposed to work in theory, it will do some work to help balance out rosters, reign in some player movement, and moderate/control some of these completely farce NIL deals (just call it what it is - pay for play). As a devout follower of a D1 school that is not in one of the chosen two conferences, the proposition of a different model excites me in a way, even though I am aware my team will never be a major player in either of the two major sports. I just want them be in existence (which is what I think most D1 fans want at this point - a seat at the table).

Independent of that, the macro conversation is that it's sad that this is going to have massive downstream impacts and cost many student athletes future opportunities.

[IUP24]

There's tons of ROI. If your program doesn't bring in big time revenue to fund itself, then you see football as an enrollment driver. Colleges in our area need men, especially Black men. Football is a proven strategy to help that. They still pay tuition - net tuition paid by the team is almost always at least double the cost of running the program - and that's before considering how football is almost exclusively living on campus to start and bringing in housing & meal revenue needed to hit contract minimums.

I'm not looking at getting into the weeds. I understand why athletics exist. And I understand why it exists at D3 programs.

My point is that you can drop to D3, avoiding scholarship caps, bring in 60 kids every recruiting cycle, and have them pay you to get their heads bashed in at practice every week. I'm not saying there isn't ROI for athletics. I'm saying there may not be ROI for schools to remain FCS or D2 and they will choose to do exactly what SFU did. The supply of scholarships is decreasing, but the demand for spots to play college athletics isn't. People still want to keep playing. My point is that financially, these programs may see D3 as a better investment as opposed to FCS or D2.

[Fightingscot82]

I'm not looking at getting into the weeds. I understand why athletics exist. And I understand why it exists at D3 programs.

My point is that you can drop to D3, avoiding scholarship caps, bring in 60 kids every recruiting cycle, and have them pay you to get their heads bashed in at practice every week. I'm not saying there isn't ROI for athletics. I'm saying there may not be ROI for schools to remain FCS or D2 and they will choose to do exactly what SFU did. The supply of scholarships is decreasing, but the demand for spots to play college athletics isn't. People still want to keep playing. My point is that financially, these programs may see D3 as a better investment as opposed to FCS or D2.

Gotcha. For PASSHE schools, the only cost difference would be lower benchmarks for salaries and conference dues. Instead of fundraising for scholarship dollars you're fundraising for an extra overnight or having the end of the year team banquet off campus.

[Bballfan]

As people are aware, St. Francis had a pretty good men's bball team. Obviously some of their top talent will try and stay D1, but I would think players from both the men and women's bball teams along with maybe some in other sports could be prime transfer options for PSAC teams. While the school isn't closing, the good athletes are not going to stay playing at a dead end D1 athletic program. Curious where they all end up.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

As people are aware, St. Francis had a pretty good men's bball team. Obviously some of their top talent will try and stay D1, but I would think players from both the men and women's bball teams along with maybe some in other sports could be prime transfer options for PSAC teams. While the school isn't closing, the good athletes are not going to stay playing at a dead end D1 athletic program. Curious where they all end up.

The mass exodus started 48 hours ago. It's ugly.

It's obviously more challenging (in late March) for the football players. While rosters are by no means finalized, most are fairly close.

Being honest, most of their football players were D2 guys anyway. So, those who come down won't be giant splash guys. However, many can certainly make an impact.

IUP, SRU and Cal recruited the same players for years.

Basketball-wise, their men's team would have been decimated regardless. As you know the low levels of D1 just get raided in April. It's become nothing but a stepping stone league.

[Bballfan]

Yep. Football was pretty much on par (or worse) than the top PSAC teams anyhow. But hopefully a lot of them can find a home.

The women's team was nothing special. Maybe a couple will find D1 homes. A lot will probably end up D2.

The men's team any good ones were gone regardless to replace the D1's players that upgraded to other schools.

The coaches and staff are going to be most impacted. It is their livelihood and a lot will be looking for jobs now.

[iupgroundhog]

There's tons of ROI. If your program doesn't bring in big time revenue to fund itself, then you see football as an enrollment driver. Colleges in our area need men, especially Black men. Football is a proven strategy to help that. They still pay tuition - net tuition paid by the team is almost always at least double the cost of running the program - and that's before considering how football is almost exclusively living on campus to start and bringing in housing & meal revenue needed to hit contract minimums.

I think this idea of using football as an enrollment driver is misdirected. Considering that these are educational institutions there is little integrity associated with that philosophy, even if its accepted within higher education circles. In particular, overtly using football to enroll Black men misses the point in a number of ways. It's a sad commentary.

[Bballfan]

It's not even about attracting minorities, it is about attracting bodies. Small schools use athletics to boost enrollment numbers because without those athletes, would they even be in business?

[iupgroundhog]

It's not even about attracting minorities, it is about attracting bodies. Small schools use athletics to boost enrollment numbers because without those athletes, would they even be in business?

Then it becomes something other than its purpose. Ultimately, and I hate to see any institution close, but if a school needs sports to survive, it probably shouldn't continue on.

[Bballfan]

Then it becomes something other than its purpose. Ultimately, and I hate to see any institution close, but if a school needs sports to survive, it probably shouldn't continue on.

There are literally dozens of private D2 schools across the country that would not survive without sports. Kentucky Wesleyan, Wheeling, Lake Erie just to name three. Notre Dame College, Urbana, and Ohio Valley used sports the same way. They just could no longer survive even with the sports.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Then it becomes something other than its purpose. Ultimately, and I hate to see any institution close, but if a school needs sports to survive, it probably shouldn't continue on.

In many, many cases, said purpose was unfortunately lost long, long ago.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Luke McConnell named new HC.

[boatcapt]

I think this idea of using football as an enrollment driver is misdirected. Considering that these are educational institutions there is little integrity associated with that philosophy, even if its accepted within higher education circles. In particular, overtly using football to enroll Black men misses the point in a number of ways. It's a sad commentary.

Is it any more misdirected than attempting to attract enrollment by starting a marching band, or building new apartment style housing, or campus wide free internet or any of the non-educational things that colleges do to attract students to enroll? Heck, on the "education" side, think of the worthless nouveau "majors" and "programs" that have been created in an attempt to attract students such as a degree in blacksmithing, pop music, pop culture, puppet arts, sexual studies, surf science, casino dealing, accent reduction, transpersonal psychology and my favorite, wooden boat building.