NSIC Scores, Final Standings and Tournament Brackets (2/18)

[DapperDan]

Re: NSIC Scores, Final Standings and Tournament Brackets (2/18)

Quincy is down at...wait for it, West Texas with Brown & Gove...tearing it up after rebuilding a program that was awful. I think they were ranked as high as #12 this year. Former WSU player Dan Kratz, who didn't play much, is also on staff down there. In my eyes, they are never coming back to WSU.

Do you mean Brown and Gove or all four of these guys? I am light years from knowing anything meaningful about the West Texas situation but doubt all of the underlings want to make a career out of that. Brown may be lost but why would not Gove want his own opportunity? Just as Brown did not want to play second fiddle forever why would he? Same for Henderson and Kratz although they obviously don't have the appeal at this point that Gove might. Dan Kratz had not spent one nanosecond of time in my brain until this. You never know. Sometimes the marginal, or less than marginal players make the best coaches.

[fanofnsic]

Re: NSIC Scores, Final Standings and Tournament Brackets (2/18)

It says he announced in October that he would not be seeking a contract extension. So, you are telling me they fired him before the season started?

Again you can look at it your way. In my opinion he was told he was not going to be getting a contract extension. So for him to save face they told him to announce that he would not seeking an extension. It happens all the time in sports. As far as it being at beginning of season that really doesn't matter as other coaches have been lame duck as well. Currently NC State is having that go on. If this guy was doing a good job he would have been back for a 12th season. He was doing awful and they needed a change. Now if he wouldn't have gone to NIU the following year and coach then I would consider him not seeking an contract extension as it being his choice. But in this situation, in my opinion, he was told he wasn't going to be coming back so he could announce he wasn't seeking one or they could just let everyone know he will be gone. We can agree to disagree on this.

[NSU4LIFE]

Re: NSIC Scores, Final Standings and Tournament Brackets (2/18)

Again you can look at it your way. In my opinion he was told he was not going to be getting a contract extension. So for him to save face they told him to announce that he would not seeking an extension. It happens all the time in sports. As far as it being at beginning of season that really doesn't matter as other coaches have been lame duck as well. Currently NC State is having that go on. If this guy was doing a good job he would have been back for a 12th season. He was doing awful and they needed a change. Now if he wouldn't have gone to NIU the following year and coach then I would consider him not seeking an contract extension as it being his choice. But in this situation, in my opinion, he was told he wasn't going to be coming back so he could announce he wasn't seeking one or they could just let everyone know he will be gone. We can agree to disagree on this.

You don't like Sundance...we get it.

[fanofnsic]

Re: NSIC Scores, Final Standings and Tournament Brackets (2/18)

Malvik and Smith were assistants to Leaf. After the Leaf fiasco Smith got cross-ways with administration and was shown the door. Malvik was interim coach for a time. I don't know what recruits he had lined up before Eisner was hired. I have heard on this board that Sam Baker was his recruit and Eisner wasn't that thrilled with him. He didn't last through the Fall. Hiring a former player wasn't an option as I understand it as the AD required a new coach have head coaching experience. What they really needed to do was entice Brown and Gove to come back but seeing as neither had head coaching experience that wasn't an option even though they had more to do with building the successful program than Leaf did. Sharp move.

I don't see hiring a former player as a particularly smart move. Just because someone is a good player doesn't make them a good coach, especially not having much coaching experience. Malvik was Leaf's assistant for one year. I think Smith may have been a graduate assistant under Leaf for one year. Before that he was helping out at Lewiston High School. Not exactly a stellar resume. The only other former player from the glory years in coaching that I am aware of is Quincy Henderson. Last I knew he was an assistant at an NAIA school.

Here is the deal. When the WSU head job position was listed the requirement was at least 2 years as a head coach. How many years did Brown have at that point? 1 year It was set up by Schoh so he couldn't apply for the job. What did WT do the day it was announced the job opened and before the requirements were released? They offered Brown and Gove raises and even after the requirements came out stuck with the raise. Now it was not a significant amount but it showed respect to Brown and Gove compare to what WSU has done to them. So that is why they didn't apply, the were not allowed.

Also Randall Herbst who everyone on here is familiar with was interested in the job but he wanted to talk to Schoh to find out all the details of what was going on with the player situation as what had happened was very bad and players might want to leave ect. He never got a call back from Schoh to give him any details so he decided not to apply.

Right there 3 former alumni, 2 with all of the background of the program and knowing the players in place, 1 with success in the NSIC and none of them are treated right by Schoh. You had a couple other alumni as well who are in coaching that looked into it but again none applied. I think because of the timing and the situation a lot of other coaches were scared to apply because no one knew what exactly was going on.

As far as John he was given a raw deal, once again because of Schoh. Its a long story but John was treated unfairly and was let go because he wouldn't fall in line with how Schoh wanted to handle the situation. So he was not able to finish grad school and is now out of coaching. He could get back in at some point but this experience has been rough on him.

Quincy has been down with Brown and Gove since day one in WT. He does a great job for them down there and helped turn that program around. In 2 1/2 years they have taken a 9-20 team that only had 3 eligible players when they arrived in May and turned them into a top 25 team currently a 4 or 5 seed in the regional down there. They had an All American guard as a sophomore last year that again will be on the team as a junior. This years squad has 3 seniors but the core will return next year so if they can add a couple pieces to fill the holes from the seniors they will once again be one of the better teams in the LSC. Quincy does a lot of the recruiting for them along with Gove. Kratz has been down there since beginning as well. He also does a great job for them with the day to day operations and travel logistics. Those 4 are just great guys. They compete every night but they are doing it the right way. The way they have been treated by WSU, mainly Schoh means they will not be coming back any time soon.

The current state of the program is sad. The one thing that really bothers me is even though the players have been through hell with the situation that occurred they were talented players. So part of me understands why they might have struggled but at the same time this staff now has had talent but done nothing with it. Then you look at what has come in over past 2 years and it is not the type of players WSU has brought in over past 20 years. The talent gap is large so while I hope WSU can get back to being competitive I do not see that with the current staff. Eisner will be there for at least his 4 years then after that we will see I guess. But changes are needed above the basketball staff. It starts at the top.

[fanofnsic]

Re: NSIC Scores, Final Standings and Tournament Brackets (2/18)

You don't like Sundance...we get it.

I liked him as a player, he was a heck of a player.

[Toucanbird]

Re: NSIC Scores, Final Standings and Tournament Brackets (2/18)

Do you mean Brown and Gove or all four of these guys? I am light years from knowing anything meaningful about the West Texas situation but doubt all of the underlings want to make a career out of that. Brown may be lost but why would not Gove want his own opportunity? Just as Brown did not want to play second fiddle forever why would he? Same for Henderson and Kratz although they obviously don't have the appeal at this point that Gove might. Dan Kratz had not spent one nanosecond of time in my brain until this. You never know. Sometimes the marginal, or less than marginal players make the best coaches.

Gove will have his opportunities, but I highly doubt he'll get an opportunity to coach at WSU as long as Eric Schoh is still the AD there.

[NSU4LIFE]

Re: NSIC Scores, Final Standings and Tournament Brackets (2/18)

I liked him as a player, he was a heck of a player.

I misread your intentions with the first post, so you get a very rare D2messageboard apology, much to the dismay or the Augie boys, haha

[MrAugustana]

Re: NSIC Scores, Final Standings and Tournament Brackets (2/18)

Gove will have his opportunities, but I highly doubt he'll get an opportunity to coach at WSU as long as Eric Schoh is still the AD there.

Is Gove a WSU alum or something? Does he have a bunch of family in the area? Or is it just that he coached there for many years? Why does everyone seem to think Gove (or Brown) would be so desperate to get back to Winona at this point, regardless of whether or not Schoh is there? If they keep winning at West Texas A&M, I'd imagine Gove will have other very good opportunities to coach at many other schools, some that may even be better situations or opportunities than WSU. I'd be surprised if either he or Brown have any sort of life goal of taking the helm at WSU at this point in their careers unless there are some reasons I'm unaware of besides just having been assistants there for a pretty long time.

[MrAugustana]

Re: NSIC Scores, Final Standings and Tournament Brackets (2/18)

I misread your intentions with the first post, so you get a very rare D2messageboard apology, much to the dismay or the Augie boys, haha

Whether you express it out loud/via text or not, we know you regularly apologize to us in your heart. That's all that matters. :)

[WSUDieHard]

Re: NSIC Scores, Final Standings and Tournament Brackets (2/18)

Is Gove a WSU alum or something? Does he have a bunch of family in the area? Or is it just that he coached there for many years? Why does everyone seem to think Gove (or Brown) would be so desperate to get back to Winona at this point, regardless of whether or not Schoh is there? If they keep winning at West Texas A&M, I'd imagine Gove will have other very good opportunities to coach at many other schools, some that may even be better situations or opportunities than WSU. I'd be surprised if either he or Brown have any sort of life goal of taking the helm at WSU at this point in their careers unless there are some reasons I'm unaware of besides just having been assistants there for a pretty long time.

Gove played hoops and baseball at WSU, early 90s. He and his family love it down there. I'm not sure if he would ever want to become a head coach. I have not asked him that, or heard anyone talk about it.

[fanofnsic]

Re: NSIC Scores, Final Standings and Tournament Brackets (2/18)

I misread your intentions with the first post, so you get a very rare D2messageboard apology, much to the dismay or the Augie boys, haha

No worries at all! I am just having some fun back and forth on all of this.

[fanofnsic]

Re: NSIC Scores, Final Standings and Tournament Brackets (2/18)

Is Gove a WSU alum or something? Does he have a bunch of family in the area? Or is it just that he coached there for many years? Why does everyone seem to think Gove (or Brown) would be so desperate to get back to Winona at this point, regardless of whether or not Schoh is there? If they keep winning at West Texas A&M, I'd imagine Gove will have other very good opportunities to coach at many other schools, some that may even be better situations or opportunities than WSU. I'd be surprised if either he or Brown have any sort of life goal of taking the helm at WSU at this point in their careers unless there are some reasons I'm unaware of besides just having been assistants there for a pretty long time.

No one said they are desperate to get back to WSU. But when you ask what was going on and how the pool of coaches was so bad I wanted to show the reason behind it being the leader of the department. If Gove and Brown could have applied I am not sure if they would have or not. That is one I cannot answer but as long as the current leadership is in place at the university they would not apply. Given a change you never know. The main point is those 2 were treated like crap and they didn't deserve it. They were a big part of building up that program. Of course you need to have players but they found the players along with developing them. The time they put into the program to get it to where it was and to see how quickly it falls makes it more difficult as well. Do that is not easy to do and to maintain it is difficult as well. I know Gove would like to be a head coach some day and if it is in the right spot for him and his family. I think Brown deserves to be looked at for smaller D1 jobs with what he is doing. Both them actually should be given a opportunity at a smaller D1 at some point in my opinion. They showed they could build a program at WSU and they are doing it again. Quincy is a excellent young coach as well and he too is going to have a long career in the business.

[Toucanbird]

Re: NSIC Scores, Final Standings and Tournament Brackets (2/18)

Is Gove a WSU alum or something? Does he have a bunch of family in the area? Or is it just that he coached there for many years? Why does everyone seem to think Gove (or Brown) would be so desperate to get back to Winona at this point, regardless of whether or not Schoh is there? If they keep winning at West Texas A&M, I'd imagine Gove will have other very good opportunities to coach at many other schools, some that may even be better situations or opportunities than WSU. I'd be surprised if either he or Brown have any sort of life goal of taking the helm at WSU at this point in their careers unless there are some reasons I'm unaware of besides just having been assistants there for a pretty long time.

Gove played hoops and baseball at WSU, early 90s. He and his family love it down there. I'm not sure if he would ever want to become a head coach. I have not asked him that, or heard anyone talk about it.

As WSUDieHard so astutely pointed out, Gove is a Winona alum who was an assistant coach in Leaf's entire tenure until he went with Brown to West Texas A&M.

I'm not implying that Gove SHOULD apply to WSU if the position comes open. I wouldn't wish that even amongst my worst enemies to jump into that dumpster fire. I am just basically stating that even if Gove wanted to come back to Winona, I highly doubt he'd get hired as long as Eric Schoh is still there.

I haven't talked to Gove ever since he went down there so I have no idea where his thoughts are on that.

[DapperDan]

Re: NSIC Scores, Final Standings and Tournament Brackets (2/18)

No one said they are desperate to get back to WSU. But when you ask what was going on and how the pool of coaches was so bad I wanted to show the reason behind it being the leader of the department. If Gove and Brown could have applied I am not sure if they would have or not. That is one I cannot answer but as long as the current leadership is in place at the university they would not apply. Given a change you never know. The main point is those 2 were treated like crap and they didn't deserve it. They were a big part of building up that program. Of course you need to have players but they found the players along with developing them. The time they put into the program to get it to where it was and to see how quickly it falls makes it more difficult as well. Do that is not easy to do and to maintain it is difficult as well. I know Gove would like to be a head coach some day and if it is in the right spot for him and his family. I think Brown deserves to be looked at for smaller D1 jobs with what he is doing. Both them actually should be given a opportunity at a smaller D1 at some point in my opinion. They showed they could build a program at WSU and they are doing it again. Quincy is a excellent young coach as well and he too is going to have a long career in the business.

What's the backdrop on Schoh anyway? Has he got some problem with success or what? Who's idea was it to hire this guy? Now we sit here stuck in this morass for at least three more years with no means of escape.

[MrAugustana]

Re: NSIC Scores, Final Standings and Tournament Brackets (2/18)

What's the backdrop on Schoh anyway? Has he got some problem with success or what? Who's idea was it to hire this guy? Now we sit here stuck in this morass for at least three more years with no means of escape.

Apparently you never saw THIS: http://winonastatewarriors.com/news/...x?path=general