G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

[BlueBlood]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

Test all schools must pass "Will you hold hands and pray after the game?"

ha ha - too true

[schnautza]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

All this talk of schools and conference affiliation inspired me to finish my "map of all maps" - I've got NCAAII, NCAAIII, and NAIA schools all on this map now with layers that you should be able to toggle on and off. Schools are color coded by conference and assigned a shape to designate division:

Diamonds - NCAAII schools with football
Stars - NCAAII schools without football
Circles - NCAAIII schools
Squares - NAIA schools

https://drive.google.com/open?id=18T...Ow&usp=sharing

Now you can see who really sits in your desired footprint...the strange thing is that USI/KWC/Oakland City/Brescia all sit in the middle of an unusual void. It's tough to really place them logically with other schools.

[DJ Silky Panties]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

All this talk of schools and conference affiliation inspired me to finish my "map of all maps" - I've got NCAAII, NCAAIII, and NAIA schools all on this map now with layers that you should be able to toggle on and off. Schools are color coded by conference and assigned a shape to designate division:

Diamonds - NCAAII schools with football
Stars - NCAAII schools without football
Circles - NCAAIII schools
Squares - NAIA schools

https://drive.google.com/open?id=18T...Ow&usp=sharing

Now you can see who really sits in your desired footprint...the strange thing is that USI/KWC/Oakland City/Brescia all sit in the middle of an unusual void. It's tough to really place them logically with other schools.

if you did a map of D1 schools in a 100, 200, and 300 mile radius of Evansville you would realize the insanity of USI staying D2 or GLVC longterm. Evansville Theatre Academy will be d3 or NAIA before long. greenbacks are hemorrhaging.

200 miles radius D1- Evansville Theatre, SIU-HoTWod, SIUe, Indiana st, Eastern illinois, Indiana, Illinois St, UofIL, Louisville, Butler, IUPUI, UK, Ball St, NKU, Xaiver, Cincy, SEMO, SLU, Arkansas St, Ut-Martin, Murray, Western Ky, Eastern Kentucky, Morehead, Austin Peay, Vanderbilt, MTSU, Lipscomb, Tenn Tech, Belmont, Tenn St,
vs. D2 - KWC, UIS, Uindy, Bellarmine, Ky state, Travecca, Maryville, Mckendree, UMSL, Lindenwood (st joe- Out of business)

31 to 10

landscape has changed alot just since mid 90's
Siue, NKU, IUPUI, SEMO, UT-Martin were D2 David Lipscomb and Belmont were NAIA and St Joe was alive

[BlueBlood]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

https://drive.google.com/open?id=18T...Ow&usp=sharing

Now you can see who really sits in your desired footprint...the strange thing is that USI/KWC/Oakland City/Brescia all sit in the middle of an unusual void. It's tough to really place them logically with other schools.

Your map does highlight a noticeable "donut" around the Evansville/Owensboro cluster and another around the Nashville cluster. Its probably no coincidence that the schools in those areas are the ones the G-MAC is having the most trouble building bridges to.

Edit: And if I'm the G-MAC, I'm very willing to add schools on the near edge of those donuts (schools like UIndy, Marian, Bellarmine, Georgetown for KWC; and LW, Campbellsville for TNU). Probably hesitant to consider a school that isn't on that closer edge. So, you can see that that greatly limits the pool of possibilities.

[ABjo]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

I think about the four schools I would like to add, on a regular basis. But one thing I keep coming back to is that southwestern corner of the conference and future "divisions" in the conference. Even if all four of your conference adds where smack dab in the middle of TNU and KWC, you still only have 6 schools down there. Then you think about how you split the divisions... Some group of schools, from the "northern" part of the conference, is going to get paired with those 6 southern schools. That will create a financial disadvantage, to the division that includes the southern schools, in the form of higher travel costs. The two fair ways to go about it would be 1. don't do divisions. 2. split the 6 southern schools in groups of 3 and put each group in a different division. But, splitting them up defeats the purpose of adding them in the first place!

[Tyler Madsen]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

This is a great map. One thing I noticed.. SW Baptist is actually in Bolivar, MO (north of Springfield), while it's listed in south central Missouri currently.

[BlueBlood]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

TNU has been a loyal member. I like the school. I respect their athletic department. But, I always think in the back of my head "they like us, they are putting up with us, but they really want to be in a southern conference". If you listen to their AD and coaches talk (especially baseball/softball/golf), you hear thinly vailed references to it. Its not just a distance thing, it is also a regional thing.

Consider this:



Each region of the US has its own Nazarene college. TNU is the Nazarene school for the southeast region of the US. The whole intent of the school is to educate students from the southeast region. Only KWC is in their region (barely). Based on that map, it looks like Campbellsville and LW would be at the very edge of their region. The school is constantly driving out of their home region (and where their students are from) for games. I think at some point, they almost have to decide that they can't keep doing that.

I think Cedarville likes the big footprint of the conference. Only 34% of CU students are from OH. There is a marketing advantage to having your sports teams "out there". However, TNU plays all of its G-MAC games in an area where they aren't even supposed to be marketing (because its Mount Vernon Nazarene University's turf). That has to suck.

For that reason, I think the G-MAC needs to be very cautious in adding any school solely for TNU's benefit. Any school you add for TNU's benefit has to be one that you would be very happy to have if TNU is gone.

[kwcpantherfan]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

Someone that I don't think has ever been mentioned is Lincoln Memorial. They're located in Harrogate, TN, which is right around the point where the TN, VA, and KY borders all meet. That may take them out of the range we really want to look at, I guess, though I haven't looked at travel times, but the school is private, between 2000-3000 students including undergrad and grad students, and has a very strong athletic program. They remind me a lot of Bellarmine in many ways, though I think the big difference between them and the rest of the league is I don't see any reference to religious affiliation for the school, so that might be another knock.

[kwcpantherfan]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

Just did a quick check of the travel times to LMU, the longest for anyone in the conference would be Lake Erie which is between 7.5-8 hours. That's shorter than the trip for KWC to AB. So from a footprint perspective, it may not be "ideal" but definitely not out of the realm of being reasonable. Also, travel time to TNU is only 4 hours and KWC only 5.

I don't know how the travel times would compare to their current conference, though, which I believe is mostly schools in and around the Carolinas.

[JDonAB92]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

It is not what I want. But I try to be realistic.

I believe the G-MAC two to three years from now will have the following programs set in stone:

Hillsdale
Walsh
Malone
Lake Erie
Notre Dame
Ohio Dominican
Cedarville
Ursuline
Urbana
Kentucky Wesleyan
Findlay

That is 11 schools; but only 10 of which fund men's sports. That is 8 football schools.

I think the direction the G-MAC goes after that is up to them. But they are going to have to add more than 8 football games. 7 conference games creates problems finding OOC games. Add two more football schools and that gives you 9 conference football games. You don't want to get stuck scheduling VU-Lynchburgs, Faith This-and-That, and SW Iowa Tabernacle if you are a school that wants to contend for a playoff spot, especially against those Michigan GLIAC schools. I think the G-MAC admin will want to have 12 athletic programs with men's sports or 14 athletic programs with men's sports. It will be an interesting direction.

Why would the G-MAC add another all women's institution? I am sorry, but that would make little sense in terms of travel. You want your mens/womens soccer programs ; mens/womens basketball programs and other possible scenarios......traveling together to cut down on travel costs. Riding together on the same bus...saves money. If you start sending men's teams and then women's teams in different directions, then it costs more $$$. That would also be a scheduling problem.

[ABjo]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

It is not what I want. But I try to be realistic.

I believe the G-MAC two to three years from now will have the following programs set in stone:

Hillsdale
Walsh
Malone
Lake Erie
Notre Dame
Ohio Dominican
Cedarville
Ursuline
Urbana
Kentucky Wesleyan
Findlay

That is 11 schools; but only 10 of which fund men's sports. That is 8 football schools.

I think the direction the G-MAC goes after that is up to them. But they are going to have to add more than 8 football games. 7 conference games creates problems finding OOC games. Add two more football schools and that gives you 9 conference football games. You don't want to get stuck scheduling VU-Lynchburgs, Faith This-and-That, and SW Iowa Tabernacle if you are a school that wants to contend for a playoff spot, especially against those Michigan GLIAC schools. I think the G-MAC admin will want to have 12 athletic programs with men's sports or 14 athletic programs with men's sports. It will be an interesting direction.

Why would the G-MAC add another all women's institution? I am sorry, but that would make little sense in terms of travel. You want your mens/womens soccer programs ; mens/womens basketball programs and other possible scenarios......traveling together to cut down on travel costs. Riding together on the same bus...saves money. If you start sending men's teams and then women's teams in different directions, then it costs more $$$. That would also be a scheduling problem.

I count 9 football schools in your list:

Hillsdale
Walsh
Malone
Lake Erie
Notre Dame
Ohio Dominican
Urbana
Kentucky Wesleyan
Findlay

What are you assuming for the current member's that aren't on your list? (AB, D&E, OVU and TNU)

[JDonAB92]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

Correct 9...my error.

I think those will be in the G-MAC as I said. It isn't to say AB, D&E and Trevecca won't be. I just think those schools will read the tea leaves and make their decisions based on how the conference expands after that. Let's face it, any school that leaves the MEC, is going to create a void. Two schools leave....and they lose two football playing members and they will swallow all pride and send out an invite to you-know-who. There (MEC) D-III expansion will never happen. Those people don't understand Maryland and Virginia D-III dynamics.

Trevecca will depend on if they have any other schools closer to them (less than 3 hours).

I have made my case for AB staying in the G-MAC over and over. But I am also a realist. With the Ohio schools and one MI school in the conference, expansion COULD realistically take another Ohio lean. They have the votes to do that.

[JDonAB92]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

I don't think OVU stays. I am dead against adding Wheeling, and I don't care about their religion or quality of school. We would be doing the MEC and Wheeling a big favor by taking them in. MEC wants them either out or to start football. They aren't starting football. This would be another way to play schools in basketball and volleyball that have football and they could keep their way of doing things. Let the MEC deal with them.

[ABjo]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

Yeah, that's what I was thinking you meant. Thinking about AB being in the MEC makes my stomach turn, but money talks.

[schnautza]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

if you did a map of D1 schools in a 100, 200, and 300 mile radius of Evansville you would realize the insanity of USI staying D2 or GLVC longterm. Evansville Theatre Academy will be d3 or NAIA before long. greenbacks are hemorrhaging.

200 miles radius D1- Evansville Theatre, SIU-HoTWod, SIUe, Indiana st, Eastern illinois, Indiana, Illinois St, UofIL, Louisville, Butler, IUPUI, UK, Ball St, NKU, Xaiver, Cincy, SEMO, SLU, Arkansas St, Ut-Martin, Murray, Western Ky, Eastern Kentucky, Morehead, Austin Peay, Vanderbilt, MTSU, Lipscomb, Tenn Tech, Belmont, Tenn St,
vs. D2 - KWC, UIS, Uindy, Bellarmine, Ky state, Travecca, Maryville, Mckendree, UMSL, Lindenwood (st joe- Out of business)

31 to 10

landscape has changed alot just since mid 90's
Siue, NKU, IUPUI, SEMO, UT-Martin were D2 David Lipscomb and Belmont were NAIA and St Joe was alive

Done. Map updated.
Looks like the Ohio Valley Conference is the only conference that would really minimize USI's travel.