G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

[BlueBlood]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

I have made my case for AB staying in the G-MAC over and over. But I am also a realist. With the Ohio schools and one MI school in the conference, expansion COULD realistically take another Ohio lean. They have the votes to do that.

I would hope that CED and URS would vote with their "Founding Member of G-MAC" hat on instead of their "Ohio" hat.

I remain convinced that there is a way to do additions that satisfy the whole.

I would lean toward satisfying KWC over TNU - because of the case I made earlier (that I'm convinced that TNU would greatly prefer to be in a southern conference and are always a flight risk).

I think if you use 3 spots to solidify the west/south, that leaves 1 spot for an additional WV school (not counting the OVU spot that you guys theorize may open at some point). If OVU opens, I'd say that should remain a 4th WV school - if possible. Question - would 4 WV schools be enticing enough for AB and D&E to stay long term? I hope so. If you add any more than one additional school in WV, you are stealing from Peter to pay Paul - greatly limiting what you can do out west to help KWC (and to a lesser extent TNU) out.

If Tiffin (the only OH school that I think should be considered at this point) is really in discussions*, then that only leaves 2 schools to bridge to KWC/TNU. Otherwise, there would be 3 spots.

*There might be a reason there is movement at Tiffin. They can do the same math we are doing. If the G-MAC is going to try to build bridges, they can't take more than one more OH school (and even that is pushing it).

[ABjo]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

I would hope that CED and URS would vote with their "Founding Member of G-MAC" hat on instead of their "Ohio" hat.

I remain convinced that there is away to do additions that satisfy the whole.

I would lean toward satisfying KWC over TNU - because of the case I made earlier (that I'm convinced they would greatly prefer to be in a southern conference and are always a flight risk).

I think if you use 3 spots to solidify the west/south, that leaves 1 spot for an additional WV school (not counting the OVU spot that you guys theorize may open at some point). If OVU opens, I'd say that should remain a 4th WV school - if possible. Question - would 4 WV schools be enticing enough for AB and D&E to stay? If you add any more in WV, you are stealing from Peter to pay Paul - greatly limiting what you can do out west to help KWC (and to a lesser extent TNU) out.

If Tiffin (the only OH school that I think should be considered at this point) is really in discussions*, then that only leaves 2 schools to bridge to KWC/TNU. Otherwise, there would be 3 spots.

*There might be a reason there is movement at Tiffin. They can do the same math we are doing. If the G-MAC is going to try to build bridges, they can't take more than one more OH school (and even that is pushing it).

If there was an MEC offer on the table... Unfortunately, probably not. Yes, Shepherd and UVA-Wise are still long trips, but you eliminate those EXTREMELY long trips to KWC, TNU and now Hillsdale. In this day and age, especially for the small private colleges in rural locations, every penny you can save may be the difference between success and your school closing it's doors.

[BlueBlood]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

BTW - expansion from this point forward is the first time the conference has had an opportunity to expand in an organized manner - its always been about pure survival until now.

1) The original OH schools were ones that the GLIAC did not want and bound together in an attempt to survive
2) I don't know the full KWC story - but I know you guys wanted/needed to get out.
3) TNU was in a similar situation to the OHs schools.
4) The G-MAC desperately needed more schools, the WV schools desperately needed somewhere to go quickly.
5) The G-MAC desperately needed more schools to be viable (from anywhere in the footprint) and that "more" happened to be Ohio.

[JDonAB92]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

Adding Ohio schools doesn't hurt the WV schools in the grand scheme of things. Travel to eastern Ohio isn't all that much more than going to Shepherd or Concord.

It will work itself out like it is supposed to. It certainly did when these schools joined. If OVU leaves and the G-MAC could convince WV Wesleyan to join, then that would be a nice fit for AB and D&E. They have football. We can still play a lot of OOC close to the school ie Fairmont, Glenville, Charleston and Salem. Little travel costs and missed class time with those trips. AB needs to have footprints beyond the state of WV. The economy of WV and the dwindling population will not get AB a lot of WV students as it used to in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Admin at AB failed to see this in the late 90s and early 2000s. It led to major problems. We are still recovering but much better off from what I hear. I think the G-MAC would do the school better....just need one more school nearby that has football....either Charleston or Wesleyan.

I don't know why I started gabbing on this topic. I do look at Bellarmine differently than Wheeling. Bellarmine would fill a geographical gap. We already have schools near Wheeling. Like I said, it will work itself out. I do think the conference can be more selective now on who it expands with.

[kwcpantherfan]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

The biggest difference I see between AB and KWC/TNU when it comes to the topic of leaving the conference is what is alluded to in schautza's map and has subsequently been stated in words - AB could leave and have a good option (strictly speaking in relation to geography) in the MEC.

If KWC or TNU leave, where do we go? We're on the edge of every conference - Southern/Southeastern edge of the GLVC, Northern edge of the Gulf South, Western/Southern edge of the G-MAC, extreme Southern/Western edge of the GLIAC, extreme Western edge of the SIAC (not to mention neither TNU or KWC are HBCs so we're not really a good institutional fit either).

So I obviously can't speak for TNU, but from a KWC perspective I'm not sure jumping to another conference would even make that much sense geographically. I mean, the GLVC would be the best if we DID move, but #1 would they take us back, #2 would we even WANT to go back, and #3 they're spread all over the place anyway so other than a handful of schools that are fairly close by we're not really gaining anything with the move anyway.

I stated before the GLIAC schools announced they were moving to the G-MAC that I felt the best option for KWC, should the G-MAC fail to expand (very questionable at that time) KWC should look at the Gulf South Conference. It's got some travel distances, but not horrible, and it might be a welcome change to go South for a change...and I still do feel like that would be a good option for us if we did choose to leave the G-MAC, but I certainly prefer to stay the course and help build this into a premier conference. Adding 2 or 3 schools between us and Cedarville could only solidify that feeling.

[Wabbott9]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

Even with just the D2 schools you notice something quickly. Indiana has 4 schools, Kentucky has 3, Illinois has 4, Wisconsin 1, and Iowa 1. They form a kind of desert. Michigan, Ohio, Missouri, Minnesota, all have far more, and border these states. If you're not on an edge of the desert you're not going to have a good conference choice. Ohio schools can choose between the GLIAC and the GMAC, and not worry about geography too much. Kentucky schools don't have that kind of luxury. Be an outlier of the GMAC or the GLVC? Time to crunch the mileage and see which can minimize the travel budget.

[Looking For 9]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

When a school chooses a conference what are: Must have______________ Would like to have__________________ Doesn't really matter_________________.

At least four items in each. What is the must important item? ________________.

[DJ Silky Panties]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

GMAC might grab Evansville Theatre Academy. They might go back to D2 instead of D3. Newly renovated Carsons brew center and have a football stadium to bring back non schollly to boost enrollment. Their D1 days are numbered at probably T minus 3 years.

[DJ Silky Panties]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

Only admitted to a 2 mil deficit but everyone know it was more. Much more now with less corp $ less attendance and higher rent in the over priced corrugated metal interior designed known as The Betty.
http://www.southcoasttoday.com/artic...NEWS/303159950

[Wabbott9]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

"Posted Mar 15, 2002 at 12:01 AM
Updated Jan 12, 2011 at 12:40 PM"

I think they've decided already.

[DJ Silky Panties]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

"Posted Mar 15, 2002 at 12:01 AM
Updated Jan 12, 2011 at 12:40 PM"

I think they've decided already.

because now dead 80 yr olds ponied up some $$
now they play in higher rent facilty with less attendance and corp $
also have had to unwillingly move women to on campus starting next yr
had to cut a sport, push out a coach and replace with a longterm "interim" with no experience for lowest pay in d1 wbb

they dont have to show P&L being a private. also they are good at pretending and "acting" like they are fiscally sound

[Stea1th]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

TNU has been a loyal member. I like the school. I respect their athletic department. But, I always think in the back of my head "they like us, they are putting up with us, but they really want to be in a southern conference". If you listen to their AD and coaches talk (especially baseball/softball/golf), you hear thinly vailed references to it. Its not just a distance thing, it is also a regional thing.

Consider this:



Each region of the US has its own Nazarene college. TNU is the Nazarene school for the southeast region of the US. The whole intent of the school is to educate students from the southeast region. Only KWC is in their region (barely). Based on that map, it looks like Campbellsville and LW would be at the very edge of their region. The school is constantly driving out of their home region (and where their students are from) for games. I think at some point, they almost have to decide that they can't keep doing that.

I think Cedarville likes the big footprint of the conference. Only 34% of CU students are from OH. There is a marketing advantage to having your sports teams "out there". However, TNU plays all of its G-MAC games in an area where they aren't even supposed to be marketing (because its Mount Vernon Nazarene University's turf). That has to suck.

For that reason, I think the G-MAC needs to be very cautious in adding any school solely for TNU's benefit. Any school you add for TNU's benefit has to be one that you would be very happy to have if TNU is gone.

very appropriate that the Trevecca zone on the map is purple! never knew that they drew their students from within static boarders. they should join the GSC and let MVNU take their spot in the GMAC. Trevecca's zone fits perfectly in the GSC footprint. MVNU's zone fits perfectly in the GMAC footprint. the funny thing is that MVNU is currently playing in an Indiana-based conference. So, they are currently also playing all of their road games outside their zone (in Olivet Nazarene's zone). somebody needs to sit down with the Nazarenes and straighten them out.

[UFSwimDad]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

The was I see it, the fate of TVN and KWC rests with getting 1) an NAIA school such as LW or C of C. I keep saying LE because of an article I found that I will post. I am sure you all have already read it since I am late to this game 2) Getting Bellermine and one of the afore mentioned schools.

I have to believe that with UINDY in our conference HQs backyard, there has had to be some sort of discussion. It just makes sense. I just do not think it would be satisfactory to TVN. I would also throw Marian in here because it makes sense, but that is pure fan speculation on my part. Same for IINDY.

Like it has be said a few times, they have to add more football only schools because at the end of the day, that's what it's about.

I have this feeling that with the HQ in Indy, and the influx of OH schools, expansion may very well end up being more Midwest based than south. But again, I am late to this game and you all have more insight than I do.

Here is that link to the article

http://battlerbeat.blogspot.com/2015...17-as.html?m=1

[ABjo]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

The was I see it, the fate of TVN and KWC rests with getting 1) an NAIA school such as LW or C of C. I keep saying LE because of an article I found that I will post. I am sure you all have already read it since I am late to this game 2) Getting Bellermine and one of the afore mentioned schools.

I have to believe that with UINDY in our conference HQs backyard, there has had to be some sort of discussion. It just makes sense. I just do not think it would be satisfactory to TVN. I would also throw Marian in here because it makes sense, but that is pure fan speculation on my part. Same for IINDY.

Like it has be said a few times, they have to add more football only schools because at the end of the day, that's what it's about.

I have this feeling that with the HQ in Indy, and the influx of OH schools, expansion may very well end up being more Midwest based than south. But again, I am late to this game and you all have more insight than I do.

Here is that link to the article

http://battlerbeat.blogspot.com/2015...17-as.html?m=1

:) That article was written by our very own JDon! :)

[kwcpantherfan]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

I don't disagree that adding Indy would make sense for various reasons, however don't assign too much importance to the conference HQ being in Indy. GLVC HQ is also there. In fact, my understanding is the two offices are almost right next to each other, like literally on the same block.