Video: Should Division II Overhaul the Playoff System? - with Mike Racy

[GorillaTeacher]

Isn’t the peach bowl in Georgia? They’ve been in the super dome?

in D2 the finals are neutral site unless you’re Florence Alabama 10 years ago.

If you want to keep revenue as high as it can be, they need to be at location, not neutral. Attendance is already poor for playoffs, why make it worse? I think the home field advantage is overstated. You don’t get that much extra time, because of practice rules and class.

football is like that at all levels for playoffs. A team gets a home game each round until finals.

Basketball is similar as well. Early rounds at locations, later rounds at host sites

[IUPNation]

"They were stupid so let's be stupid, too."

Every other sport in D2 plays part or all of their playoffs at a neutral site. Football only does it for the finals…most years.

Region 1 is accused of wanting to keep an “unfair advantage”. Why should 6-8 schools get every home semi final game going forward? You don’t see that as harmful. I mean why bother when the same schools will get the easiest road every year whether they deserve it or not. If you all get your way there will never be a semi final game played on a Northeast campus ever again even if they earned it. They will only ever be played in Missouri, Kansas, Michigan, Florida, Georgia and Mississippi. Once you make it easy for a bias to take hold in the process it will be hard to change. Even FBS doesn’t have their Final Four on a campus. if they did. The SEC would get every home game.

[Brandon]

The D2 Field Hockey Playoffs were played entirely in Seattle by mostly teams from the Pee Sack and a few NE10 schools. If it’s okay for these playoffs to ge held 3000 miles away from all of campuses of each team in the brackets..four foosball teams can play at a neutral site.

"They were stupid so let's be stupid, too."

[IUPNation]

In 2015 and 2016, Northwest earned the right to host all those games. The championship game just happened to be in Kansas City and it simply wouldn't have mattered where the championship game was played. Nothing was tilted in NW's favor.

Good thing schools can't outbid others anymore.

They earned it under the system but it will be too easy for a committee to favor certain teams all the time in a fix. That’s why the cure could be worse than the problem.

A neutral field for the final four takes away any complaining. The Elite 8 is in one spot.

The D2 Field Hockey Playoffs were played entirely in Seattle by mostly teams from the Pee Sack and a few NE10 schools. If it’s okay for these playoffs to ge held 3000 miles away from all of campuses of each team in the brackets..four foosball teams can play at a neutral site.

Is this for better games and the best teams getting to the final four or game day fun? I Jean we can put our snacks and a jumpy castle for the players if it makes their experience better. I just don’t want it to be 6-8 teams always getting a home field advantage every season and literally impossible for IUP if they make strides. There is bias and it’s hard to get rid of it once it takes hold.

[IUPNation]

Oh I totally understand that. In the past, teams wanted a loss to a 1AA team to be meaningless, but wins or close losses should have been a boon to their playoff resume. Every game should have consequences unless the rules are changed.

What was the score of the YSU game?

13-7

[EastStroud13]

Keep in mind, there are going to be flights in round two. There were 4 this past season come R2. You can only do so much after R1 to avoid flights once you start charting the locations of the top 10-20 teams on a map. Almost half the 2nd round matchups are going to have a flight..even without planning your best to avoid it.

This last year we saw MSU fly to CO Mines and MIAA teams head to MI..and others. What "we" currently have is mostly SR1. Folks in SR1 just aren't accustomed to that much travel in early rounds given the current structure which has the teams the Northeast playing just themselves until the semis.

Come round 2 there is 8 games to be played that weekend....and 16 teams remaining. In theory, the top 8 seeds from the original bracket should all have a home game. In the example you mentioned above, you'd like to see the winner of Shep/ND play against another NE team..in a perfect world. However, there's only 2 top teams in the 8 seeded squads and they'd already be hosting the Dav/UIndy winner and then the SRU/Ashland winner..and both of those would be drivable matchups. Since there's teams like Angelo in TX, WFla way down south, and the overall North/South distance we have here..there's gonna be some flights for R2.

I'm not saying that flights are going to be eliminated, but I still don't really see the reasoning behind "pre-scheduling" a guaranteed flight just to get a unique matchup. You can seed the top 8 teams and then still distribute the rest of the teams regionally. Whichever region gets most of the SR1 teams is still going to be the easiest most likely, but at least now there's probably a GVSU or Ferris in that quadrant acting as a filter.

[Brandon]

Keep in mind, there are going to be flights in round two. There were 4 this past season come R2. You can only do so much after R1 to avoid flights once you start charting the locations of the top 10-20 teams on a map.

This is a map of the teams that finished in the D2Football Top 25 Poll.

[Matt Witwicki]

To me, the easiest way to do this is to go back to having the top 6 from each region qualify automatically, and then make the final 4 spots wild cards selected by a committee. Even if SR1 only gets the 6, that's still a 21% representation rate.

I still think the bracket should be formed to minimize travel through the first three rounds, not just the first round. But I'm sure there are ways to do that without being completely rigid to regions. There's a middle ground between what we currently have, and making the Shepherd/Notre Dame winner play the Delta State/CSUP winner in the second round.

Keep in mind, there are going to be flights in round two. There were 4 this past season come R2. You can only do so much after R1 to avoid flights once you start charting the locations of the top 10-20 teams on a map. Almost half the 2nd round matchups are going to have a flight..even without planning your best to avoid it.

This last year we saw MSU fly to CO Mines and MIAA teams head to MI..and others. What "we" currently have is mostly SR1. Folks in SR1 just aren't accustomed to that much travel in early rounds given the current structure which has the teams the Northeast playing just themselves until the semis.

Come round 2 there is 8 games to be played that weekend....and 16 teams remaining. In theory, the top 8 seeds from the original bracket should all have a home game. In the example you mentioned above, you'd like to see the winner of Shep/ND play against another NE team..in a perfect world. However, there's only 2 top teams in the 8 seeded squads and they'd already be hosting the Dav/UIndy winner and then the SRU/Ashland winner..and both of those would be drivable matchups. Since there's teams like Angelo in TX, WFla way down south, and the overall North/South distance we have here..there's gonna be some flights for R2.

[Brandon]

It's such a long way to travel compared to playing, say, the Davenport/UIndy winner. Personally, I just don't see the gain.

I'm fine with rematches in the playoffs in the second/third round. They happen. If the idea is to keep national contenders from the same conference apart from each other (say GVSU and Ferris), then seed the top 8 teams first and make them the "anchors" of each region.

The gain is in perception. They are more interesting matchups. Other areas of the country have to take flights in the first and second round. I know it's an anomaly in SR1.

Your second paragraph is what Matt proposed.

[EastStroud13]

It's hard to do that while avoiding rematches.

What's wrong with the Shepherd/Notre Dame winner playing the Delta State/CSUP winner in the second round?

It's such a long way to travel compared to playing, say, the Davenport/UIndy winner. Personally, I just don't see the gain.

I'm fine with rematches in the playoffs in the second/third round. They happen. If the idea is to keep national contenders from the same conference apart from each other (say GVSU and Ferris), then seed the top 8 teams first and make them the "anchors" of each region.

[Brandon]

Do you not understand how some people might have felt seeing Northwest never leaving the KC area for two straight years in the playoffs? I mean how much more could they have titled the playing field in your favor? I mean you had ever regional game at home, the semi final game at home and then played the title game a short commute from campus.

That's what I hate.

For some background on why I am so bent on this:

In 1991, when there weren't any regions and teams were picked for the playoffs...IUP went into the playoffs undefeated and Ranked #1 in the only poll.

They played Shippensburg and Virginia Union at home in the first two rounds and won a combined 108-14.

So when it came time for the Semi Final game....you'd think the top ranked team in the country would get the home game right?

WRONG!

They forced IUP on the road to Jacksonville State and they lost by 7.

Why did they get the home game and not us? Games were bidded for based on money...not by merit.

I hold a grudge over that.

I also did not like losing to North Alabamastan on their home field on a ****ing fluke pass play by a friggen high school option offense. Put that game in Indiana and we would have run them off the field.

So....that's why I don't want 6-8 teams always having home games every year in the playoffs come the Final Four or Finals.

In 2015 and 2016, Northwest earned the right to host all those games. The championship game just happened to be in Kansas City and it simply wouldn't have mattered where the championship game was played. Nothing was tilted in NW's favor.

Good thing schools can't outbid others anymore.

[Brandon]

The loss shouldn't hurt as bad. If IUP played Villanova and lost by 14 that's not as bad as playing Fairmont State and losing by 14.

IUP played Youngstown State in 1999. They were a rare 3 loss team in the 16 team era to make the playoffs. That was the team that lost in Maryville by 8. Obviously battling a then D1AA power held some weight come playoff selection time.

Oh I totally understand that. In the past, teams wanted a loss to a 1AA team to be meaningless, but wins or close losses should have been a boon to their playoff resume. Every game should have consequences unless the rules are changed.

What was the score of the YSU game?

[Brandon]

One team is traveling and one is sitting home in their own beds having more time to prepare. It burned me up when certain schools never left home all playoffs.

I think the Final Four games should be neutral...and if you have an East bracket and a West bracket...you can have neutral sites where you don't have to travel too far.

I used to think that way but changed my mind after talking to players.

In a lot of instances, travel time is less because they're in an airplane and not on a bus. Also, they eat better on the road since those costs are covered by the team/NCAA.

I think the attendance would be very poor in neutral site semifinal games. I think it could also negatively affect attendance at the championship game.

[IUPNation]

Yes. I know why it's done in theory, but it robs both the home fan and the visiting fan of the best environment possible. A team that travels to CSS for a playoff game doesn't get the real experience.

Do you not understand how some people might have felt seeing Northwest never leaving the KC area for two straight years in the playoffs? I mean how much more could they have titled the playing field in your favor? I mean you had ever regional game at home, the semi final game at home and then played the title game a short commute from campus.

That's what I hate.

For some background on why I am so bent on this:

In 1991, when there weren't any regions and teams were picked for the playoffs...IUP went into the playoffs undefeated and Ranked #1 in the only poll.

They played Shippensburg and Virginia Union at home in the first two rounds and won a combined 108-14.

So when it came time for the Semi Final game....you'd think the top ranked team in the country would get the home game right?

WRONG!

They forced IUP on the road to Jacksonville State and they lost by 7.

Why did they get the home game and not us? Games were bidded for based on money...not by merit.

I hold a grudge over that.

I also did not like losing to North Alabamastan on their home field on a ****ing fluke pass play by a friggen high school option offense. Put that game in Indiana and we would have run them off the field.

So....that's why I don't want 6-8 teams always having home games every year in the playoffs come the Final Four or Finals.

[IUPNation]

I have long advocated for a 10 game resume rather for playoff participation. However, I 100% disagree that there should be a bonus for playing an FCS. The bonus is the guarantee.

You've paid attention long enough to know that schools would schedule a 1AA team and claim a loss shouldn't be used against them but a win should be a feather in their cap.

The loss shouldn't hurt as bad. If IUP played Villanova and lost by 14 that's not as bad as playing Fairmont State and losing by 14. Taking a risk should be rewarded...isn't that the whole lecture to the Pee Sack on here?

IUP played Youngstown State in 1999. They were a rare 3 loss team in the 16 team era to make the playoffs. That was the team that lost in Maryville by 8. Obviously battling a then D1AA power held some weight come playoff selection time.