G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

[boatcapt]

Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

My gut still tells me that the Falcons will eventually be a GMAC school. Just because they haven't acted yet doesn't mean that they eventually won't. However, I don't really care as much as I used too. NDC will be fine in either conference.

I'm not aware that there is a "standing offer" from the GMAC. I had heard that there had been one years ago, but that before they loaded up on GLIAC schools. A lot has changed since then.

I agree that NDC is in a good place athletically in the MEC. I really hear no gripes from anyone other than that the constant travel into WV can get a bit tiring and repetitive.

Is it your gut or your heart??!! The standing offer from the GMAC was reported by someone on this board based on information they had gotten from unidentified sources. Could have been a total fabrication I suppose but I do recall it being mentioned a number of times over the years.

I think as time goes by the chances of NDC and Urbana moving becomes more and more remote. Say what you will about the distance or secondary teams that make the playoffs not living up to expectations, but you can't argue with the success the conference has had since its birth. MEC is only six years old and already member schools have already won 5 National Championships, claimed 19 Atlantic/SR1 crowns, had over 100 NCAA playoff berths with all member schools having at least one team make the playoffs. And that doesn't even count the individual NCAA accolades MEC athletes have won in individual sports. Pretty good showing for a conference that sprang in part from the WVIAC who's crowning accolade was having one member team participate in one NC game in its 20 years of existence.

I'm not going to do it, but it would be interesting to compare the MEC's success in it's first 6 years against the first 6 year success of the so called "powerhouse" DII conferences.

[Stea1th]

Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

But that still begs the question, if they are such a good geographic fit, why haven't they moved already? I mean if it is such a logical thing and such a big financial savings, I'd think they would have jumped at the chance to save money in these financially challenged times that most small schools find themselves in. Particularly in the case of NDC and Urbana that are supposed to "standing offers" from the GMAC, why haven't the jumped at the chance? Clearly there is something that is holding them up and making the GMAC not as good a fit as people on this board seem to think it is.

In the case of NDC, I proffer the following:

NDC is in a good place athletically in the MEC. They are coming off a football season were they won the SR1 and conference titles and in the process nocked the previous, and now departed, "top conference dog." With Shepherd gone, they probably believe they have the inside track to conference supremacy, the NCAA playoffs and if conference history holds, multiple SR1 titles. From a basketball standpoint, NDC see's its star on the ascendency in the MEC. Again, NCAA playoffs are a distinct possibility. Wrestling will be a full MEC sport starting this fall and along with NDC, the MEC will have a number of pretty good ranked DII teams in WU, WLU and UNCP. Swimming, while not a fully independent MEC sport (yet) will have seven teams competing with D&E, Frostburg and UNCP coming aboard to compliment NDC, Fairmont, Urbana and WVW.

My gut still tells me that the Falcons will eventually be a GMAC school. Just because they haven't acted yet doesn't mean that they eventually won't. However, I don't really care as much as I used too. NDC will be fine in either conference.

I'm not aware that there is a "standing offer" from the GMAC. I had heard that there had been one years ago, but that before they loaded up on GLIAC schools. A lot has changed since then.

I agree that NDC is in a good place athletically in the MEC. I really hear no gripes from anyone other than that the constant travel into WV can get a bit tiring and repetitive.

[boatcapt]

Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

Yep. And that's' pretty much why I don't think that musical chairs is over. Chips will continue to fall, and chips falling may (or may not) cause schools and conferences to make changes. And if changes are made, more chips fall.

But "chips falling" have nothing to do with the yearly reporting of eminent moves for the same cast of characters. Kind of like me predicting when I was 8 years old that I was going to be a successful business tycoon and make a million dollars, living my life largely unemployed and on public assistance then winning the lottery when I am 60 and saying "SEE! I TOLD you I was going to make a million dollars in business!!" Kind of like Jean Dixon who predicted THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of things, got one or two right and proclaimed herself a psychic and modern day Nostradamus! It's actually called the "Jean Dixon Effect"...Accepting the few true predictions a person makes while deliberately ignoring mountain of false predictions.

[BlueBlood]

Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

Shepherd joining the PSAC caused some chips to fall.

Yep. And that's' pretty much why I don't think that musical chairs is over. Chips will continue to fall, and chips falling may (or may not) cause schools and conferences to make changes. And if changes are made, more chips fall.

[boatcapt]

Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

I don't think the MEC actually wanted D&E ... but Shepherd joining the PSAC caused some chips to fall.

D&E is a complete head scratcher from the MEC standpoint. Outside of having a couple of sports (wrestling and swimming) that help a little, it makes zero sense from the MEC standpoint. They were a bottom feeder back in the WVIAC (and one of the reasons for the conferences ultimate demise), they were a bottom feeder in the GMAC and there is about a 99.99% chance they will be an across the board bottom feeder in the MEC. Now for THEM, it is a good thing...less travel and a bigger share of conference NCAA money than what they were getting.

[boatcapt]

Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

The 3 PSAC schools geographic fit in the PSAC is really good. So, they would have to be really unhappy there or super drawn to something else to justify a move.

The other schools mentioned are more of geographic issues, so a move could make sense even if they are pretty satisfied with their current conference. I don't think AB is unhappy in the G-MAC, but I get that they could save a lot of travel $ and time (kids out of class, in buses) by switching conferences. The same can be said for NDC/Urbana. If one of them moves, I don't think its any kind of indictment on their current conference.

UIndy and Ashland both fit in the geographic category too. I think both of them probably really want to stay where they are, but their conferences keep contracting in their direction and expanding in the opposite direction. UIndy saw KWC switch conferences, St. Joes close and Bellarmine is talking about going D1. Meanwhile, their conference has been adding schools in Missouri. Ashland saw every other OH school switch conferences and now is adding trips to Wisconsin. Their lacrosse team now has trips to Minnesota and Iowa.

For the geographic-issue schools, I don't think musical chairs has stopped just yet. I have no idea on timing. But remember, for years some folks on here were saying that D&E to the MEC "just makes too much geographic sense not to happen". That move is "finally" happening now. I expect that we will see some of the other long-discussed moves happen in the future as well.

But that still begs the question, if they are such a good geographic fit, why haven't they moved already? I mean if it is such a logical thing and such a big financial savings, I'd think they would have jumped at the chance to save money in these financially challenged times that most small schools find themselves in. Particularly in the case of NDC and Urbana that are supposed to "standing offers" from the GMAC, why haven't the jumped at the chance? Clearly there is something that is holding them up and making the GMAC not as good a fit as people on this board seem to think it is.

In the case of NDC, I proffer the following:

NDC is in a good place athletically in the MEC. They are coming off a football season were they won the SR1 and conference titles and in the process nocked the previous, and now departed, "top conference dog." With Shepherd gone, they probably believe they have the inside track to conference supremacy, the NCAA playoffs and if conference history holds, multiple SR1 titles. From a basketball standpoint, NDC see's its star on the ascendency in the MEC. Again, NCAA playoffs are a distinct possibility. Wrestling will be a full MEC sport starting this fall and along with NDC, the MEC will have a number of pretty good ranked DII teams in WU, WLU and UNCP. Swimming, while not a fully independent MEC sport (yet) will have seven teams competing with D&E, Frostburg and UNCP coming aboard to compliment NDC, Fairmont, Urbana and WVW.

[JDonAB92]

Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

There is speculation on message boards about this school and that.

The bottom line is that the G-MAC has to expand. There is no question about it. You can't have a football league with 8 football schools and expecting each school to find 4 OOC games. It is not feasible. Tom Daeger showed that he has the ability as a commissioner to expand a conference. I guarantee he will show that ability as a leader to do it again.

D&E was let go from the G-MAC because: (a) they don't have football and, (b) they were an 'outlier' in geographic terms. They brought some needed olympic sports to the G-MAC. But it was easier to let them go without any penalty or time wait.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

The 3 PSAC schools geographic fit in the PSAC is really good. So, they would have to be really unhappy there or super drawn to something else to justify a move.

The other schools mentioned are more of geographic issues, so a move could make sense even if they are pretty satisfied with their current conference. I don't think AB is unhappy in the G-MAC, but I get that they could save a lot of travel $ and time (kids out of class, in buses) by switching conferences. The same can be said for NDC/Urbana. If one of them moves, I don't think its any kind of indictment on their current conference.

UIndy and Ashland both fit in the geographic category too. I think both of them probably really want to stay where they are, but their conferences keep contracting in their direction and expanding in the opposite direction. UIndy saw KWC switch conferences, St. Joes close and Bellarmine is talking about going D1. Meanwhile, their conference has been adding schools in Missouri. Ashland saw every other OH school switch conferences and now is adding trips to Wisconsin. Their lacrosse team now has trips to Minnesota and Iowa.

For the geographic-issue schools, I don't think musical chairs has stopped just yet. I have no idea on timing. But remember, for years some folks on here were saying that D&E to the MEC "just makes too much geographic sense not to happen". That move is "finally" happening now. I expect that we will see some of the other long-discussed moves happen in the future as well.

I don't think the MEC actually wanted D&E ... but Shepherd joining the PSAC caused some chips to fall.

[BlueBlood]

Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

The 3 PSAC schools geographic fit in the PSAC is really good. So, they would have to be really unhappy there or super drawn to something else to justify a move.

The other schools mentioned are more of geographic issues, so a move could make sense even if they are pretty satisfied with their current conference. I don't think AB is unhappy in the G-MAC, but I get that they could save a lot of travel $ and time (kids out of class, in buses) by switching conferences. The same can be said for NDC/Urbana. If one of them moves, I don't think its any kind of indictment on their current conference.

UIndy and Ashland both fit in the geographic category too. I think both of them probably really want to stay where they are, but their conferences keep contracting in their direction and expanding in the opposite direction. UIndy saw KWC switch conferences, St. Joes close and Bellarmine is talking about going D1. Meanwhile, their conference has been adding schools in Missouri. Ashland saw every other OH school switch conferences and now is adding trips to Wisconsin. Their lacrosse team now has trips to Minnesota and Iowa.

For the geographic-issue schools, I don't think musical chairs has stopped just yet. I have no idea on timing. But remember, for years some folks on here were saying that D&E to the MEC "just makes too much geographic sense not to happen". That move is "finally" happening now. I expect that we will see some of the other long-discussed moves happen in the future as well.

[boatcapt]

Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

I pretty much agree with both above posts.

Mercyhurst, Gannon and Seton Hill would make excellent G-MAC members - IF THEY NEEDED A CONFERENCE. They check all the boxes (small, private, church-affiliated schools). I'm just not convinced that they are unhappy where they are. It doesn't sound like anyone is.

The only thing I can think of is that they could just be keeping in touch for a "someday" plan. I know that we keep hearing rumors of PASSHE reform and possible consolidations down the road. Maybe they are just thinking that depending upon what happens, they may need (or just desire) an exit strategy. As affiliate members of the G-MAC they certainly have easy access for discussion.

The interesting thing about the schools that Insidesource listed is that every one of them has a strong connection to the G-MAC institutions. He didn't just haphazardly list a bunch of schools.

The core of the G-MAC are schools that have been together for decades. 9 of the 13 where either in the old NAIA conference or the GLIAC together. Most were in both. 7 were in the NAIA conference together (of the 9, Hillsdale and Lake Erie were not) and 7 were in the GLIAC together (of the 9, Cedarville and Ursuline were not).

Only the geographic outliers (TNU, KWC, AB and OVU) do not share this history.

So, given the above, it is interesting that the schools that Insidesource named all have the shared NAIA conference (NDC, Seton Hill) or GLIAC (Mercyhurst, Gannon, UIndy)pedigree.

As you say, I don't think anyone is unhappy where they are at and playing who they are playing. Think about it, if travel $ was such a big motivator for the schools speculated about, why haven't they moved already? I mean, moving would represent instant savings and if the schools are that cash strapped, I'd think they would jump at the chance to move NOW and not wait 5+ years to do so. Same with the supposed burning desire to play the teams these schools played back in their NAIA days. If that was such a burning desire in the pit of their stomach, they would have moved years ago. Fact that they haven't for over five years now tells me that perhaps the burning desire to play old conference foes is only in the minds of some and they probably aren't the ones making the conference affiliation decisions.

I think the decision makers at each of the schools mentioned are pretty happy playing in the conference they are currently in and traveling what ever distance they are traveling. Unless something monumental changes, I don't really see a compelling reason for any of them to move. But as I've said before, sometimes schools move for all the wrong reasons and all it takes is an AD with a hard-on to play in another conference for whatever reason and there is a good chance it will happen...even if it makes little real sense.

[BlueBlood]

Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

I pretty much agree with both above posts.

Mercyhurst, Gannon and Seton Hill would make excellent G-MAC members - IF THEY NEEDED A CONFERENCE. They check all the boxes (small, private, church-affiliated schools). I'm just not convinced that they are unhappy where they are. It doesn't sound like anyone is.

The only thing I can think of is that they could just be keeping in touch for a "someday" plan. I know that we keep hearing rumors of PASSHE reform and possible consolidations down the road. Maybe they are just thinking that depending upon what happens, they may need (or just desire) an exit strategy. As affiliate members of the G-MAC they certainly have easy access for discussion.

The interesting thing about the schools that Insidesource listed is that every one of them has a strong connection to the G-MAC institutions. He didn't just haphazardly list a bunch of schools.

The core of the G-MAC are schools that have been together for decades. 9 of the 13 where either in the old NAIA conference or the GLIAC together. Most were in both. 7 were in the NAIA conference together (of the 9, Hillsdale and Lake Erie were not) and 7 were in the GLIAC together (of the 9, Cedarville and Ursuline were not).

Only the geographic outliers (TNU, KWC, AB and OVU) do not share this history.

So, given the above, it is interesting that the schools that Insidesource named all have the shared NAIA conference (NDC, Seton Hill) or GLIAC (Mercyhurst, Gannon, UIndy)pedigree.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

As is WU. Perhaps a seven school Catholic conference???

As for believing any of these off season musings based on information from supposed "sources," I agree, probably nothing to any of it. Does make for interesting off season discussion even if most of it is recycled year after year!

To play along, in this whole thread there still hasn't been one actual reason why the two Erie schools would even remotely entertain leaving the PSAC.

Keep in mind their whole reason for wanting to join the league just several years ago -- travel distance and local rivalries. That's (lack of) is the very reason they left the GLIAC.

UPJ isn't worth talking about ... there's zero chance they are leaving.

Seton Hill, while many in the PSAC would probably prefer they leave, is also an extreme long shot to actually do so. Seton Hill can travel to any West school in less than 3 hours -- many in less than an hour. The ONLY possible reason Seton Hill would possibly consider making the move is because it's just been overwhelmed in football and men's basketball. But, that would have to mean they care about the sports and want to quit treating football like an enrollment booster. Odds of departure: Less than 2 percent.

As for the 'unnamed' PSAC, non-private school, ... I'd put the odds of a PASSHE member school leaving the PSAC around the same as Elvis singing the anthem at IUP's home opener.

These athletic departments are all cash-strapped. Why in the world would they want to add even more expense and pump more money in to a product that would likely result in even less people paying attention?

The schools have to have something to gain by making such a drastic move. I can't see one thing any of them would gain.

[ESU Warrior]

Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

My, My, My.

I'm away for only a few days and Insidesource and BoatCapt are spilling tea all over the place.

I'm not saying I'm inclined to believe much of it, but I always love speculation and info obtained directly from "sources".

Seton Hill / Mercyhurst / Gannon to G-MAC -- Interesting. Seton Hill shared an NAIA conference with a decent portion of the current G-MAC. Mercyhurst and Gannon were GLIAC members up until 2008, so they have history with a decent portion of the G-MAC as well. In fact, I think Mercyhurst has shared history with Hillsdale, Findlay, Ashland and UIndy all the way back to the MIFC days. All 3 are lacrosse members of the G-MAC.

UIndy to the G-MAC -- I thought this was a pipe dream at one time (they are currently #2 in D2 directors cup points, by the way). That said, I thought Hillsdale/Findlay/Tiffin was a pipe dream too, and it happened. Given the continued westward movement of the GLVC, their closest GLVC conference-mate closing, Bellarmine flirting with D1, etc - there are reasons that this might have some legs. Plus, they share the same GLIAC football history, plus MIFC history with Hillsdale Findlay, Ashland and Mercyhurst.

NDC/Urbana to G-MAC -- This rumor has been around forever - and for obvious reasons. It makes sense. Both have a history with the G-MAC and were part of the old NAIA conference that the G-MAC essentially rebuilt. Both are better geographic fits in the G-MAC than the MEC. I'm sure that both have had frequent and ongoing discussions with the G-MAC and/or G-MAC schools regarding a potential someday move.

Ashland to either the G-MAC or MEC -- Ashland said they would re-visit their affiliation in 2020. I'll take them at their word. No idea if they move or not. If they do, I think its the G-MAC. I highly doubt its the MEC.

AB to MEC -- This is the opposite rumor to NDC/Urbana. Its been around forever - and again, for good reason. Same reasons - past history and better geography. Similar to NDC/Urbana, I can almost guarantee you that there have been ongoing discussions between AB and the MEC.

Walsh to the MEC -- I don't believe this one at all. They were one of the NAIA schools that transitioned to D2 with the intent of meeting up with their conference-mates on the other side in a new D2 conference. After a decade of work, they finally got what they wanted. Unless something extreme happened behind the scenes that we don't know about, I cannot see this happening.

Good information. I basically said the same thing about Walsh. All those schools transitioned with the same intent. Losing Malone may even help Walsh in the long haul.


AB to the MEC makes to much sense, but so does Urbana and NDC. This is all based on geography.

As for the PSAC, Gannon and Mercyhurst wanted in for YEARS before it was announced in 2007 that the PSAC will finally admit private schools after decades. They played in the PSAC in 2008 (I believe) for the first time. I know lacrosse aligns better in the GMAC, but I can't see them moving after decades of knocking at the door to get into the PSAC. I could be wrong, and crazier things have happened, but based on history I just don't see it. They would be going back on everything they fought for. Now Seton Hill is a different story. They were an all female college for years before transitioning. They never knocked on the PSAC's door like the two Erie schools did. I do see them as a possible jumper. Pitt-Johnstown is in the same category as Gannon and Mercy. They wanted in for years, and are now where they want to be.

All the other schools are public, and I find it hard to believe that one of them is considering leaving. They all founded together and stayed together. They all share the same beliefs. They all align perfectly, and in conference your longest trip is approx 2 hours, unless you travel from east/west. Why would one want to leave and significantly increase their travel?

And by the way, I do feel it is inevitable that Indy makes the jump. Based on history and location. Losing St. Joe's really hurt them, and they will be able to cut down on significant travel.

[boatcapt]

Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

By the way - Walsh, Ohio Dominican, Notre Dame, Mercyhurst, Gannon and Seton Hill are all Catholic universities. Just an observation. Could be relevant, or it might not be.

As is WU. Perhaps a seven school Catholic conference???

As for believing any of these off season musings based on information from supposed "sources," I agree, probably nothing to any of it. Does make for interesting off season discussion even if most of it is recycled year after year!

[BlueBlood]

Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

By the way - Walsh, Ohio Dominican, Notre Dame, Mercyhurst, Gannon and Seton Hill are all Catholic universities. Just an observation. Could be relevant, or it might not be.