SSHE Enrollments Down Again

[IUPNation]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

Schools aren't as easily merged as the Bon Ton Store. The PASSHE CHancellor is still talking about innovating our way out of the problem -but he is going to have to downsize somehow. I doubt that IUP really has a capacity of 17000, I think that number comes from multiplying the number of faculty by an ideal faculty /student ratio. Facilities would never handle that many. The first thing the Chancellor should do is limit all these PASSHE is dying stories, since it must have an impact on enrollment next year. If they would have the guts to seriously downsize, it should include an increase of the enrollment standards, to try to improve the academic reputation a bit. Regardless of the great things our students do, highschoolers see the kid with the 750 SATs getting accepted to state schools. The kid with 1150 doesn't want to go to the same school as that guy.

SAT testing is bogus. I should know. No matter how much I prepared for it...I received the same 880 score the two times I took it. I graduated in the top third of my high school class and graduated from IUP with a B average. I applied to two colleges, IUP and Millersville and was accepted at both. I was offered by IUP tpo be a Summer-January freshman and Millersville for the regular fall semester as a freshman. Some people just can't take those kinds of tests and I am one of them. Also, back in those days it was better not to answer a question than to answer and get it wrong. How stupid was that? So how many of those kids in my day with their 1150 were skipping questions so not to have their score decreased? I was the type that I felt I should answer the questions. I know they don't score that way anymore but the premise that many people don't do well on standardized testing still applies.

So if kids are acting like their poo don't stink because they received an 1150 and can't go to school that gives kids with a 750 a chance to prove themselves...then the kid with the 1150 is a snobby little prick who has *******s for parents.

[Bart]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

Everyone keep talking about the drop in high school graduation rates. As a member of the Baby Boomer generation, most of these schools have twice as many students as they did during my years attending them. It appears more people are attending college then every before, including state schools.

[IUPNation]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

Everyone keep talking about the drop in high school graduation rates. As a member of the Baby Boomer generation, most of these schools have twice as many students as they did during my years attending them. It appears more people are attending college then every before, including state schools.

Not in Catholic High Schools......

One thing that maybe be a factor...or it may not....driving this in PA in the number of high school kids dropping is that in the 1980's.....Pennsylvania saw a lot of college aged people leave the state including many who weren't in college...they just left because there were no jobs in many towns. The Yinzer diaspora of that time is pretty well known. There has been huge void of people of a certain generation (late Boomer/Early Gen X) in the Yinzerlands for years. People my age would have kids in high school now.

Really many of the schools now have about the same or slightly higher enrollments that they had in the 80's. IUP is below the 13000 we had in the 80's and West Chester was at about 9000 then so they are way up. But the rest...most of them were in the 4000-7000 range in those days on average...probably with Mansfield, Lock Haven and Cheyney being lower.

[ironmaniup]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

What I'm curious about is how much of this decline can also be attributed to community colleges in the state potentially drawing prospective PASSHE students away.

Its a small percentage of the decline. The best CC students will eventually transfer often to a PASSHE school anyway, The ones that don't are students who probably are better off going to trade / technical schools. WCU does great with the local Philly CCs, since WCU is also as easy to get to from the City as any PSU branch campuses. in the west, there are much lower enrollments in the CCs - The real killer for PASSHE schools in the west, for IUP in particular are places like Pitt Greensburg and Johnstown, PSU Allegheny, New Kensington and Altoona. we never hear about those enrollments, certainly never in such a dramatic "the state system is failing" kind of report. Capacity for students is huge here, but the student population is declining.

[ironmaniup]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

Everyone keep talking about the drop in high school graduation rates. As a member of the Baby Boomer generation, most of these schools have twice as many students as they did during my years attending them. It appears more people are attending college then every before, including state schools.

The drop is compared to 2010, when things maxed out, not compared to the 1990s or before. So to be fair, during that time 2005-2010 schools expanded their capacity, most expanded too fast - Administrators always want to ride a good run. They over invested, didn't improve quality of the students or academic programs much, entered markets they knew little about, and then the students started to decrease, and other competitors got better. So here we are now, in a fix.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

Reputations don't help. I know we like to think IUP is a good school. Statistically, it can even be proven it is such.

However, the first thing that comes to mind when the name is mentioned isn't an academic setting. It's a party school in a party town. Hate to say it but that was a very well-earned reputation over a very long period of time.

The process of blocking the campus police reports is helping to at least keep IUP out of the news. They can pretty much hide anything now except a death. But, getting rid of the 'reputation' will take decades. Keeping the admission standard to 'pulse' level doesn't help, either.

The thing I never read from any of these schools is what is their actual target enrollment?

As for the Penn State New Kensington or Pitt Greensburg argument? Yeah, that's real. Kids can live at home and leave with a Penn State or Pitt diploma. Penn State New Kensington also has a pretty reputable engineering program. It's also 8 miles or so from downtown New Ken and on a nice little campus (for a branch campus). Pitt Greensburg is also a nice (little) campus for what it is.

What's the target recruit for these schools? Obviously the top wave of graduating students isn't coming. They go to the Duquesne's, etc. The elite will go to the Carnegie Mellon's, etc. There's an awful lot of competition now for what's left. People are getting 2-year degrees and getting better jobs than kids leaving the state schools with bland degrees in fields like communications, etc., that -- for most -- lead to terrible jobs.

[Horror Child]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

"We have to shrink to grow"

:laugh:

The demographic issue will affect all campuses, PASSHE and otherwise, soon enough.

[Horror Child]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

It's a bad combination of declining high school students, state subsidies driving tuition into private school territory, and a lack of prestige.

Consolidation won't fix anything because you'll lose all the rural PA students who need to commute. Roughly 40% of PASSHE students commute. A lot of them work to afford school so you'd lose them making the enrollment losses worse. The system has totally bungled their value proposition. Working class PA is paying a little bit more to attend Penn State branches, private schools discounting sticker price by 50% or more, and out of state publics offering special tuition deals. All have better reputations than PASSHE.

Except the annual costs to operate those facilities, not to mention the value of the campus.

Any chance you have access to cost per student for each campus?

[IUPNation]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

The state needs to make them affordable again which was always their mission.

AS for IUP's reputation of a party school in a party town...does that hamper Penn State. How many drunken rampages have happened in State College over the years?

Nobody is going to mistake Philadelphia Street for the Las Vegas Strip.

IUP has everything in place now to make it a first choice. The campus has never looked better. The dorms are all modern.

They have numerous dining choices and it's still a pretty darn good school.

The dorms at Penn State look like tenements next to IUP's.

It just can't be about 7 or 8 Saturdays in the fall.

Someone mentioned it earlier...where IUP is losing right now is not getting the kids in Southeastern Pennsylvania that are commuting to West Chester instead.

The West Chester campus isn't any larger and they only built a few new campus buildings. So where are they stuffing 17000 kids these days?

West Chester is doing a pretty good job advertising itself in the Philadelphia market.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

The state needs to make them affordable again which was always their mission.

AS for IUP's reputation of a party school in a party town...does that hamper Penn State. How many drunken rampages have happened in State College over the years?

Nobody is going to mistake Philadelphia Street for the Las Vegas Strip.

IUP has everything in place now to make it a first choice. The campus has never looked better. The dorms are all modern.

They have numerous dining choices and it's still a pretty darn good school.

The dorms at Penn State look like tenements next to IUP's.

It just can't be about 7 or 8 Saturdays in the fall.

Someone mentioned it earlier...where IUP is losing right now is not getting the kids in Southeastern Pennsylvania that are commuting to West Chester instead.

The West Chester campus isn't any larger and they only built a few new campus buildings. So where are they stuffing 17000 kids these days?

West Chester is doing a pretty good job advertising itself in the Philadelphia market.

While I may agree with many of your points, we aren't really trying to say IUP compares to Penn State in reputation ... are we? If so, I'm afraid I've got some bad news.

[ironmaniup]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

SAT testing is bogus. I should know. No matter how much I prepared for it...I received the same 880 score the two times I took it. I graduated in the top third of my high school class and graduated from IUP with a B average. I applied to two colleges, IUP and Millersville and was accepted at both. I was offered by IUP tpo be a Summer-January freshman and Millersville for the regular fall semester as a freshman. Some people just can't take those kinds of tests and I am one of them. Also, back in those days it was better not to answer a question than to answer and get it wrong. How stupid was that? So how many of those kids in my day with their 1150 were skipping questions so not to have their score decreased? I was the type that I felt I should answer the questions. I know they don't score that way anymore but the premise that many people don't do well on standardized testing still applies.

So if kids are acting like their poo don't stink because they received an 1150 and can't go to school that gives kids with a 750 a chance to prove themselves...then the kid with the 1150 is a snobby little prick who has *******s for parents.

I tend to agree about SATs to a point - but not all students with low SATs and HS GPAs are just bad test takers. There is a reason 750s don't get in to Dusquesne very often. And there is alot to be said for being in a class where the other students are not bad students. One of WCUs successes is that it enrolls only Freshman with good academic credentials, and lets the CC system in Philly sort out the students that need a chance to show they are better than their SAT and HS GPA . If they succeed in CC, they will succeed most state colleges. That's a great model, but when the students stopped coming to the western schools, the standards got lower. So its not just being Snobby.

[Fightingscot82]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

What I'm curious about is how much of this decline can also be attributed to community colleges in the state potentially drawing prospective PASSHE students away.

Zilch. There are rumors floating around that community college and trade school admission is surging as people realize "college isn't worth the cost". Enrollment is all post-secondary education is down. Law schools are down. Med schools are down. Beauty schools and culinary schools are down. Even the number 18-25 year olds enlisting in the military is down. All because nationally that population is down by 20%.

[Fightingscot82]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

Everyone keep talking about the drop in high school graduation rates. As a member of the Baby Boomer generation, most of these schools have twice as many students as they did during my years attending them. It appears more people are attending college then every before, including state schools.

Yes, but Boomers were the last generation to average at least 2 kids per family. If people have kids at all anymore most stop at 2. Gone are the days when it was common for families to have 3, 4, or 5 kids. This coming from a guy with 4. :bulgy-eyes:

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

So, rather than continuing to talk about declines ... what's the bottom line? How many students does a Clarion need to keep the lights on?

Could IUP function with a more selective 9,000 instead of 12,000?

[SRU 88]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

How does Slippery Rock manage to keep their enrollment relatively steady?

Lots of reasons:

1. good leadership from past President Norton.

2. Creation of new majors that are popular and in demand in the current job market. Homeland Security major and this past May graduated our first class of Physician's Assistant

3. also there are now over 20 grad programs

4. I talked to the New President a couple of weeks ago, he is going to do well, he is very diversified worked on Wall street in private sector, then become a teacher got his grad degree from Michigan, comes from a school that was struggling. But also knows that you need more students but with that comes increased costs, so there needs to be a happy medium.

5. Endowment is the highest it has ever been; but still lagging behind others in a the system.