SSHE Enrollments Down Again

[Fightingscot82]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

Except the annual costs to operate those facilities, not to mention the value of the campus.

Any chance you have access to cost per student for each campus?

No I don't, but it depends on how you calculate it. Is it budget divided by total students or budget divided by FTE?

[Fightingscot82]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

The state needs to make them affordable again which was always their mission.

AS for IUP's reputation of a party school in a party town...does that hamper Penn State. How many drunken rampages have happened in State College over the years?

Nobody is going to mistake Philadelphia Street for the Las Vegas Strip.

IUP has everything in place now to make it a first choice. The campus has never looked better. The dorms are all modern.

They have numerous dining choices and it's still a pretty darn good school.

The dorms at Penn State look like tenements next to IUP's.

It just can't be about 7 or 8 Saturdays in the fall.

Someone mentioned it earlier...where IUP is losing right now is not getting the kids in Southeastern Pennsylvania that are commuting to West Chester instead.

The West Chester campus isn't any larger and they only built a few new campus buildings. So where are they stuffing 17000 kids these days?

West Chester is doing a pretty good job advertising itself in the Philadelphia market.

Their failure is to market their education as just as good as more expensive Penn State and Pitt BFE campuses and privates. But the state's inability to have funding keep pace with increasing costs (some of which they sign off on) have driven tuition too close to the Pitt and Penn State tuition and how much private schools are willing to discount that sticker price. Average total cost of attendance for a resident freshman is roughly $24k at PASSHE. Average net cost at a place like Robert Morris is $29k. If the student thinks RMU is worth an extra $5k a year they're going to make that call. RMU has a very solid reputation in business and trained to cite RMU's AACSB accreditation but they're shocked to learn that several PASSHE schools are actually ranked higher by AACSB. A significant factor in why PASSHE is losing students to other schools is that our reputations were in education. In the last 30 years other schools were able to better market/position themselves in training future teachers...but now nobody is studying education. Its not even a top 10 major for fall 2018 freshman at PASSHE.

[Horror Child]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

Zilch. There are rumors floating around that community college and trade school admission is surging as people realize "college isn't worth the cost". Enrollment is all post-secondary education is down. Law schools are down. Med schools are down. Beauty schools and culinary schools are down. Even the number 18-25 year olds enlisting in the military is down. All because nationally that population is down by 20%.

So we no longer need 14 schools in the state system. Or if 14 are kept, they need to be much smaller in terms of faculty, beds, majors, etc.

Yes, people will lose jobs, but it happens all the time in the private sector. Cars were invented and horse breeders and farriers were no longer in high demand, but auto mechanics and fuel delivery were. The market says time for the (painful) shift in resources.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

Lots of reasons:

1. good leadership from past President Norton.

2. Creation of new majors that are popular and in demand in the current job market. Homeland Security major and this past May graduated our first class of Physician's Assistant

3. also there are now over 20 grad programs

4. I talked to the New President a couple of weeks ago, he is going to do well, he is very diversified worked on Wall street in private sector, then become a teacher got his grad degree from Michigan, comes from a school that was struggling. But also knows that you need more students but with that comes increased costs, so there needs to be a happy medium.

5. Endowment is the highest it has ever been; but still lagging behind others in a the system.

A very close friend has a daughter doing the tour right now. Your listed No. 2 above was their exact comment about Slippery Rock -- and that's her 'leader in the clubhouse' right now.

[ironmaniup]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

A very close friend has a daughter doing the tour right now. Your listed No. 2 above was their exact comment about Slippery Rock -- and that's her 'leader in the clubhouse' right now.

Everyone is doing new programs, its just SRU knows their clientele better and made better choices. The PA thing was a great idea, plus they had room for growth at the grad level, and IUP had leveled out with that.

Also, They are just a small amount cheaper than IUP because of our bungled pay per credit policy. Its not much, but if someones on the fence.

[iupgroundhog]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

It's a bad combination of declining high school students, state subsidies driving tuition into private school territory, and a lack of prestige.

Consolidation won't fix anything because you'll lose all the rural PA students who need to commute.

Funny how the "we have too many western PA state schools" mantra seems to have gone away. No doubt there will be losers in any consolidation e.g. only a certain portion of existing students in the merged school will actually transfer. Others will follow other paths. But it's a one time deal. It happens. The market adjusts. The individual schools need to be more viable. They are not all able to stand on their own now well enough to maintain the integrity of the system. Mergers should be the first step and other changes should follow, IMO.


I also have to chuckle when people constantly tout free enterprise and remind us that the schools 'need to operate more like businesses' but now say mergers of schools aren't like merging department stores. I see a lot of speculation on the why's and where for's of all this but action needs to be taken. I'm talking about making actionable changes. These board members can plug in to as any conference calls as they like and talk about the same things everybody on here is talking about but from a fiscal perspective (and let's face it it's all fiscal) they need to merge western schools and sell off or repurpose the casualty locations.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

Funny how the "we have too many western PA state schools" mantra seems to have gone away. No doubt there will be losers in any consolidation e.g. only a certain portion of existing students in the merged school will actually transfer. Others will follow other paths. But it's a one time deal. It happens. The market adjusts. The individual schools need to be more viable. They are not all able to stand on their own now well enough to maintain the integrity of the system. Mergers should be the first step and other changes should follow, IMO.


I also have to chuckle at people who constantly tout free enterprise and who have frequently reminded us that the schools 'need to operate more like businesses' but now say mergers of schools aren't like merging department stores. I see a lot of speculation on the whys and where fors of all this but action needs to be taken. I'm talking about making actionable changes. These board members can plug in to as any conference calls as they like and talk about the same things everybody onhere is talking about but from a fiscal perspective (and let's face it it's all fiscal) they need to merge western schools and sell of or repurpose the casualty locations.

That's a whole different issue. What, if anything, are they worth? What investor is going to line up to buy the California or Mansfield campus with their locations, etc.? Goodness, even if somebody wanted the land it would cost a mega fortune just to tear the buildings down.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

Funny how the "we have too many western PA state schools" mantra seems to have gone away. No doubt there will be losers in any consolidation e.g. only a certain portion of existing students in the merged school will actually transfer. Others will follow other paths. But it's a one time deal. It happens. The market adjusts. The individual schools need to be more viable. They are not all able to stand on their own now well enough to maintain the integrity of the system. Mergers should be the first step and other changes should follow, IMO.


I also have to chuckle when people constantly tout free enterprise and remind us that the schools 'need to operate more like businesses' but now say mergers of schools aren't like merging department stores. I see a lot of speculation on the why's and where for's of all this but action needs to be taken. I'm talking about making actionable changes. These board members can plug in to as any conference calls as they like and talk about the same things everybody onhere is talking about but from a fiscal perspective (and let's face it it's all fiscal) they need to merge western schools and sell off or repurpose the casualty locations.

Let's pretend IUP is a 'business' as you mention. What's the absolute first thing that must happen for any business to function? Something needs sold.

So, right away, I'm looking at IUP's 'sell' rate of people who actually visit the campus for an official tour. What percent are they landing? Why aren't they landing the ones who pick Edinboro, etc.?

My guess is IUP has a major, major weakness in this area. They have everything to sell -- new, big campus, etc. Yet every time lately a new report surfaces they are in the red. Why? How many people come here and pick a different state school?

Recruiting and closing needs taken way more serious. That may be the most important job on campus right now.

[iupgroundhog]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

That's a whole different issue. What, if anything, are they worth? What investor is going to line up to buy the California or Mansfield campus with their locations, etc.? Goodness, even if somebody wanted the land it would cost a mega fortune just to tear the buildings down.

It's a sunk cost. They need to get what they can from them. But the question of what they are worth is wide open. Who knows? I believe you can work a deal with Pitt, PSU and Temple and maybe even Penn and tie a purchase to their massive state appropriation. PASSHE has been screwed over for years and they need to fight back. I think it's a viable idea.

[Mad3 Boss]

[iupgroundhog]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

With all due respect, we know what the problems are. This is real and PA needs solutions. Where does the PASSHE go from here? All this talk about curriculum changes and such is great but PASSHE needs a drastic structural overhaul and they need it now.

[iupgroundhog]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

Let's pretend IUP is a 'business' as you mention. What's the absolute first thing that must happen for any business to function? Something needs sold.

So, right away, I'm looking at IUP's 'sell' rate of people who actually visit the campus for an official tour. What percent are they landing? Why aren't they landing the ones who pick Edinboro, etc.?

My guess is IUP has a major, major weakness in this area. They have everything to sell -- new, big campus, etc. Yet every time lately a new report surfaces they are in the red. Why? How many people come here and pick a different state school?
Recruiting and closing needs taken way more serious. That may be the most important job on campus right now.

Yeah, but the topic isn't the marketing of IUP. It's about the future of PASSHE. Incidentally, IUP did hire a full time marketing executive this year. Not sure what fruits we'll see from that. IUP is just one of the state schools today. A commodity, to a great extent. It's not like when I went to IUP. Back then IUP was completely distinct from all the other schools in the system. A lot of people don't understand that and when they say what's that matter they have a point. 35 years after the formation of PASSHE it's a lot harder for IUP to stand out from the crowd. Geography plays a much more important role than it did in my day. IUP doesn't exactly have a geographic advantage.

[GhostOfHomer01]

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

PSU-California does have a ring to it. Inheriting the existing campus under the PSU brand .... BIG potential.

[Cal U Alum 99]

Re: SSHE Enrollments Down Again

SAT testing is bogus. I should know. No matter how much I prepared for it...I received the same 880 score the two times I took it. I graduated in the top third of my high school class and graduated from IUP with a B average. I applied to two colleges, IUP and Millersville and was accepted at both. I was offered by IUP tpo be a Summer-January freshman and Millersville for the regular fall semester as a freshman. Some people just can't take those kinds of tests and I am one of them. Also, back in those days it was better not to answer a question than to answer and get it wrong. How stupid was that? So how many of those kids in my day with their 1150 were skipping questions so not to have their score decreased? I was the type that I felt I should answer the questions. I know they don't score that way anymore but the premise that many people don't do well on standardized testing still applies.

So if kids are acting like their poo don't stink because they received an 1150 and can't go to school that gives kids with a 750 a chance to prove themselves...then the kid with the 1150 is a snobby little prick who has *******s for parents.

Nation I totally agree. I did the same exact thing you did since I got an 800 in HS. I tend to prove myself in school and now in the work force. I applied to Kutztown and Cal. My mom worked at KU at the time so I got free tuition at KU and 1/2 off at Cal (or any of the other 13 state schools). The only reason I transferred to Cal was because of my major. I can say that I use a lot of what I learned at Cal at my job so it was totally worth the trip to Western PA. Getting back to the point, the SAT is a silly way to test, but in defense of the system I guess they need to gauge a student to weed out the one's who have really low scores.