Will Gannon, Mercyhurst, Seton Hill budgets survive Covid-19?

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Close schools to save $25 million, decimate rural communities for untold amounts in lost tax revenue and significant increases in social services. I know how I'd vote.

No easy answer regarding this topic. There will be some hardships. But, I don't think there's any doubt we have too many schools. The supply currently far exceeds the demand. Does PA have double the amount of state schools it actually needs? Perhaps.

You have to wonder how much longer some of our members can survive.

[Fightingscot82]

No easy answer regarding this topic. There will be some hardships. But, I don't think there's any doubt we have too many schools. The supply currently far exceeds the demand. Does PA have double the amount of state schools it actually needs? Perhaps.

You have to wonder how much longer some of our members can survive.

What sucks is that I felt the system was on a good path before Covid-19 struck.

1.) All schools were classified based on their financial situation and all had to submit 5-year financial contingency plans. For example, Edinboro is replacing their dome with a fixed roof structure, selling the Erie campus, and demolishing unused buildings.

2.) The state negotiated a huge retirement incentive for staff that paid out 2.5 times the previous cap on unused sick days. Over 100 faculty took it. Because of the CBAs, some schools are still staffed based on their 2010 enrollment peak.

3.) The state seemed interested in funding all or part of the 5 year/$100 million innovation supplement proposed by the system.

I'd also say that the state media is slowly starting to question Pitt and Penn State operating Cheyney-esque branches. For every success story (Penn State Behrend or Pitt Bradford) there are Penn State Mont Alto or Pitt Titusville.

[ctrabs74]

The reality is that today's PASSHE system draws it's roots from the late 18th century/early 19th century when the State Normal Schools has assigned districts for each of the 12 of the 14 current state colleges:

The beginning of the State System of Higher Education can be traced to the Act of May 21, 1857 which set up a procedure for establishing "normal schools" to provide professional training for common school teachers. The state was originally divided into twelve normal school districts. A thirteenth normal school district was recognized with the creation of Clarion State Normal School in February 1887, but the last of the originally planned twelve districted institutions was Slippery Rock, which was not recognized until February 1889.

I posted this a few years ago, but it may have been lost to one of the several post purges over the years; here's the district-by-district assignments of the state's normal schools as established in 1857:

First District (West Chester): Bucks, Chester, Delaware and Montgomery (Philadelphia suburbs)
Second District (Millersville): Lancaster, Lebanon and York (Lancaster area)
Third District (Kutztown): Berks, Lehigh and Schuylkill (Reading, Pottsville, Allentown)
Fourth District (East Stroudsburg): Carbon, Lackawanna, Luzerne, Monroe, Northampton, Pike and Wayne (Northeastern Pennsylvania - Scranton, Wilkes-Barre, Bethlehem)
Fifth District (Mansfield): Bradford, Lycoming, Sullivan, Susquehanna, Tioga and Wyoming (Williamsport area)
Sixth District (Bloomsburg): Columbia, Dauphin, Juniata, Mifflin, Montour, Northumberland, Perry, Snyder and Union (Harrisburg and points north)
Seventh District (Shippensburg): Adams, Bedford, Blair, Cumberland, Franklin, Fulton and Huntington (Altoona, Carlisle)
Eighth District (Lock Haven): Cameron, Centre, Clearfield, Clinton, Elk and Potter (State College)
Ninth District (Indiana): Armstrong, Cambria, Indiana and Westmoreland (Johnstown, Greensburg)
Tenth District (California): Fayette, Greene, Somerset and Washington (Southwest corner of state)
Eleventh District (Slippery Rock): Allegheny, Beaver and Butler (Pittsburgh and northern counties)
Twelfth District (Edinboro): Crawford, Erie, Lawrence, Mercer and Venango (New Castle, Erie)
Thirteenth District (Clarion)*: Clarion, Forest, Jefferson, McKean and Warren

(*) Split from Eighth District (Lock Haven) in 1887

This might have been an ideal format around the turn of the century when travel and transport were completely different from what we're used to (no roads or interstates as we know it; no cars or motorized vehicles). Today, especially with the technology we have, probably not so much. But, you know there will be a lot of powerful politicians in Harrisburg who will make sure their constituent schools won't be sacrificed at the altar of cost cutting.

[Fightingscot82]

If you have kids in K-12 you've absolutely seen that online instruction doesn't adequately replace classroom instruction. But this is PA where the white haired political boss dictates how things go.

[Dirty Harry]

The effects of Liberalism. There's never enough money for them. Always want to raise taxes, or in this case raise the cost of schools, because we just had to build all of these schools with all of the amenities, suites instead of dorms, chick-fil-a on campus, etc, etc, and now the chickens have come home to roost. These schools shouldn't cost any more than at the most $15,000. They are state schools. The cost of school at the Univ. of Virginia is like $27,000-$28,000 overall. Millersville is $25,000. Excuse me, NO PASSHE state school will ever be mentioned in the same breathe in terms of quality of education compared to schools like that. So, Why the big cost? I often read on here how people blame the legislature in H-Burg for lack of funding. Well, guess what, if you get less, you don't build more amenities. And, how about paying professors $80-$90000 to teach 12 hours a week. And then people wonder why they can't get the classes they want in the semester they want half the time. How about that salary for 36 hours a week and increased opportunities for students. So, people have figured out , it's cheaper to spend two years living at home going to community college. Or, just pay online tuition without the frills. So, to whom the bell tolls, it now tolls for the PASSHE. It has not been a very good business model for a long time. Too many sports to finance, etc. With the population leaving the state and going south for lower cost of living, Pennsylvania keeps running off tackle, when there's nothing there.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

The effects of Liberalism. There's never enough money for them. Always want to raise taxes, or in this case raise the cost of schools, because we just had to build all of these schools with all of the amenities, suites instead of dorms, chick-fil-a on campus, etc, etc, and now the chickens have come home to roost. These schools shouldn't cost any more than at the most $15,000. They are state schools. The cost of school at the Univ. of Virginia is like $27,000-$28,000 overall. Millersville is $25,000. Excuse me, NO PASSHE state school will ever be mentioned in the same breathe in terms of quality of education compared to schools like that. So, Why the big cost? I often read on here how people blame the legislature in H-Burg for lack of funding. Well, guess what, if you get less, you don't build more amenities. And, how about paying professors $80-$90000 to teach 12 hours a week. And then people wonder why they can't get the classes they want in the semester they want half the time. How about that salary for 36 hours a week and increased opportunities for students. So, people have figured out , it's cheaper to spend two years living at home going to community college. Or, just pay online tuition without the frills. So, to whom the bell tolls, it now tolls for the PASSHE. It has not been a very good business model for a long time. Too many sports to finance, etc. With the population leaving the state and going south for lower cost of living, Pennsylvania keeps running off tackle, when there's nothing there.

Amen.

[Bart]

The effects of Liberalism. There's never enough money for them. Always want to raise taxes, or in this case raise the cost of schools, because we just had to build all of these schools with all of the amenities, suites instead of dorms, chick-fil-a on campus, etc, etc, and now the chickens have come home to roost. These schools shouldn't cost any more than at the most $15,000. They are state schools. The cost of school at the Univ. of Virginia is like $27,000-$28,000 overall. Millersville is $25,000. Excuse me, NO PASSHE state school will ever be mentioned in the same breathe in terms of quality of education compared to schools like that. So, Why the big cost? I often read on here how people blame the legislature in H-Burg for lack of funding. Well, guess what, if you get less, you don't build more amenities. And, how about paying professors $80-$90000 to teach 12 hours a week. And then people wonder why they can't get the classes they want in the semester they want half the time. How about that salary for 36 hours a week and increased opportunities for students. So, people have figured out , it's cheaper to spend two years living at home going to community college. Or, just pay online tuition without the frills. So, to whom the bell tolls, it now tolls for the PASSHE. It has not been a very good business model for a long time. Too many sports to finance, etc. With the population leaving the state and going south for lower cost of living, Pennsylvania keeps running off tackle, when there's nothing there.

I question your numbers. In-state tuition at Univ. of Virginia is $14,111 and $12,574 at Millersville per year, from what I can see. Total costs for in-state Virginia residents is close to $35,00. Tuition isn't the problems; it's the extras of room and board. Yes Virginia, the Ville at $25,000 is a much less expensive.

[Dirty Harry]

I question your numbers. In-state tuition at Univ. of Virginia is $14,111 and $12,574 at Millersville per year, from what I can see. Total costs for in-state Virginia residents is close to $35,00. Tuition isn't the problems; it's the extras of room and board. Yes Virginia, the Ville at $25,000 is a much less expensive.

Bart, no reason to question my numbers. My niece goes to UVA, and I am involved in her education. I look at direct costs, not incidentals. And, I see the bills. So, a $2000 to $3000 difference is not overcome by the Ville's quality of education, or any state school for that matter. My niece gets a world class education, not a ticket to the Bloomsburg Fair.

[Bart]

Bart, no reason to question my numbers. My niece goes to UVA, and I am involved in her education. I look at direct costs, not incidentals. And, I see the bills. So, a $2000 to $3000 difference is not overcome by the Ville's quality of education, or any state school for that matter. My niece gets a world class education, not a ticket to the Bloomsburg Fair.

I agree. I also had a nephew get his doctorate there, although I didn't pay the bill.I would much rather have my family member go to UVA, but it is one of the most expensive state schools. https://www.collegecalc.org/colleges...a-main-campus/

My point is that the tuition is under $15,000 per year at the Ville, as you suggested. Yes, it does cost $25,000 to go to the Ville, but not $28,000 to go to UVA.

I do enjoy the Bloomsburg Fair, but I have also bought tickets to Williamsburg, and honeymooned at Virginia Beach.

[CALUPA69]

Bart, no reason to question my numbers. My niece goes to UVA, and I am involved in her education. I look at direct costs, not incidentals. And, I see the bills. So, a $2000 to $3000 difference is not overcome by the Ville's quality of education, or any state school for that matter. My niece gets a world class education, not a ticket to the Bloomsburg Fair.

You're skipping over one critical factor. UVA accepts 23.8% versus MU at 79.5%. God bless your very intelligent niece, but she is the exception rather than the rule. PASSHE was designed to provide teachers for the state not MDs, PHDs and MBAs for the nation. Although that function has evolved as the elementary/secondary population has dropped, there is still a need for an educated work force who labor to make a success of other's innovations. The nation needs both and systems like PASSHE, CUNY/SUNY and CAL STATE are major contributors.

[Sec10-A-14]

If you have kids in K-12 you've absolutely seen that online instruction doesn't adequately replace classroom instruction. But this is PA where the white haired political boss dictates how things go.

Agree, thank you Gov (hairless) Wolf

[Dirty Harry]

You're skipping over one critical factor. UVA accepts 23.8% versus MU at 79.5%. God bless your very intelligent niece, but she is the exception rather than the rule. PASSHE was designed to provide teachers for the state not MDs, PHDs and MBAs for the nation. Although that function has evolved as the elementary/secondary population has dropped, there is still a need for an educated work force who labor to make a success of other's innovations. The nation needs both and systems like PASSHE, CUNY/SUNY and CAL STATE are major contributors.

Yes, we do need both systems. That's why the state schools should be much more affordable than they are. They should educate the masses of the state.

[Dirty Harry]

I agree. I also had a nephew get his doctorate there, although I didn't pay the bill.I would much rather have my family member go to UVA, but it is one of the most expensive state schools. https://www.collegecalc.org/colleges...a-main-campus/

My point is that the tuition is under $15,000 per year at the Ville, as you suggested. Yes, it does cost $25,000 to go to the Ville, but not $28,000 to go to UVA.

I do enjoy the Bloomsburg Fair, but I have also bought tickets to Williamsburg, and honeymooned at Virginia Beach.

The 2019-2020 Cost of Attendance on the UVA Financial Services website indicates in the College of Arts and Sciences, the tuition is $13,682 and Fees are $2,958 plus housing is $6720 and Meals are $5230 for a total of $28,690. I only deal in direct costs. The actual point is that the reputation of the academic institution of a UVA compared to a PA State school isn't even close. The PASSHE is overpriced for the value. And, they have priced themselves out of the market, and now suffer with attendance at many places. Apparently, the leadership in PA forgot the simple concept of Supply and Demand.

[Bart]

The 2019-2020 Cost of Attendance on the UVA Financial Services website indicates in the College of Arts and Sciences, the tuition is $13,682 and Fees are $2,958 plus housing is $6720 and Meals are $5230 for a total of $28,690. I only deal in direct costs. The actual point is that the reputation of the academic institution of a UVA compared to a PA State school isn't even close. The PASSHE is overpriced for the value. And, they have priced themselves out of the market, and now suffer with attendance at many places. Apparently, the leadership in PA forgot the simple concept of Supply and Demand.

That's fine. I guess it's like buying a new car with all the extras. Sometimes trying to find the real cost is like going down a rabbit hole.

As Harry Chapin sang in Taxi, "Harry, keep the change."

[Dirty Harry]

That's fine. I guess it's like buying a new car with all the extras. Sometimes trying to find the real cost is like going down a rabbit hole.

As Harry Chapin sang in Taxi, "Harry, keep the change."

Yes, Bart what a great song and memory.