Will Gannon, Mercyhurst, Seton Hill budgets survive Covid-19?

[Fightingscot82]

If they are cutting faculty to better reflect the current student enrolement, that is a step in the right direction. But attrition based staff cuts will only go so far and so quickly. My experience with early retirements or buy out programs is that you basically get an early glut of applicants and then the rate drops dramatically (the disgruntaled, disaffected and the just plain tired) and then the rate drops off dramatically. It is a good system if you only need to shave a small % of your work force but not so effective as a large scale reorganization tool.Is this program targeted as specific segments/majors or is it available to professors/teachers across the board?

Across the board and across the system.

[boatcapt]

Across the board and across the system.

So conceivably a highly desirable department/major could lose its entire staff while less successful majors with lower student enrollment could go unscathed?

[Fightingscot82]

So conceivably a highly desirable department/major could lose its entire staff while less successful majors with lower student enrollment could go unscathed?

Yes because the program is voluntary. If a vacated position is deemed necessary, such as a faculty position in a highly desirable department, then they'd hire a replacement but still save money on getting the new person at the bottom of the salary schedule.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Yes because the program is voluntary. If a vacated position is deemed necessary, such as a faculty position in a highly desirable department, then they'd hire a replacement but still save money on getting the new person at the bottom of the salary schedule.

Bob Nutting perfected that practice years ago.

[Fightingscot82]

NYT article on the depleting state funding of public universities. PASSHE mentioned.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/05/u...-pandemic.html

[iupgroundhog]

NYT article on the depleting state funding of public universities. PASSHE mentioned.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/05/u...-pandemic.html

Thanks. That's an outstanding article. Germane to our conversation.

It makes me feel vindicated as far as the positions I've taken, lol. The NYT agrees with 'ole groundhog.

Do you think Greenstein keeps up with our posts?

[Fightingscot82]

Thanks. That's an outstanding article. Germane to our conversation.

It makes me feel vindicated as far as the positions I've taken, lol. The NYT agrees with 'ole groundhog.

Do you think Greenstein keeps up with our posts?

Haha I'm with you groundhog.

I can tell you that Greenstein is the absolute best suited chancellor for this moment of all previous others. He's a "higher ed guy" who is very well read on innovation, very well connected with higher ed thought leaders, and very well respected. I've only met him once and it was brief. He's into road biking - if I ever bump into him again I'll have to ask his thoughts on D2 football. Honestly, I bet he gets the value proposition in partial scholarship athletics. He understands the big picture that well.

[Sec10-A-14]

Yes because the program is voluntary. If a vacated position is deemed necessary, such as a faculty position in a highly desirable department, then they'd hire a replacement but still save money on getting the new person at the bottom of the salary schedule.

Not sure how this works. And I have no idea how the state runs its pay scale or retirement system.
And I'm not a CPA. I have to pay one to due my taxes every yr.

Replace unit #1 making $140K. Replace unit #1 with unit #2 at a cost of $100K. Savings $40K.

But hold on. Unit #1 will receive retirement pay + health ins. Cost maybe $40K/yr
Unit #2 will also get pay increases to say about in 5 or 6 yrs making $125K, now add in the previous cost of
unit #1 retirement costs of $40K (assuming unit #1 is still living as most live at least 8 to 10yrs) also add in
ret Cost Of Living increases.
In 5 or 6 yrs the early buy-out could cost unit #2 $125K + unit #1 ret costs @ (base $40K + COL) $45K.

Unit #2 at $125K +unit #1 cost of $45K =$170K that's $30K more then the current unit#1 cost of $140K.
Net loss of $30K per unit replacement and that's not adding medical cost increases.

[Dirty Harry]

NYT article on the depleting state funding of public universities. PASSHE mentioned.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/05/u...-pandemic.html

Didn't you tell me to go on Google and check for the last state funded school to close???? So, now we see that it is a possibility, and it's not as stupid and irresponsible as you accused me of. I'm not saying it will happen in the state system, but, all of us really don't know what the future lies, and people should be looking at all kinds of options. Next time you see the leader of PASSHE, maybe mention to him that we need to fund athletics with state dollars like other states do. It's all about priorities. I know of one state school that had a Psych department that had 8 or 9 faculty members, but no one had graduated with a psych degree in like 5 years. And, yet, nothing changed. Hard decisions may have to be made, and some we may not like. Has anybody ever seen Administrator's furloughed? Or
had positions cut? There will likely be changes. Hopefully everybody survives, but these kinds of things often give people excuses to do things that they'd really like to do , but don't want to pay a political penalty for it.

[Fightingscot82]

Not sure how this works. And I have no idea how the state runs its pay scale or retirement system.
And I'm not a CPA. I have to pay one to due my taxes every yr.

Replace unit #1 making $140K. Replace unit #1 with unit #2 at a cost of $100K. Savings $40K.

But hold on. Unit #1 will receive retirement pay + health ins. Cost maybe $40K/yr
Unit #2 will also get pay increases to say about in 5 or 6 yrs making $125K, now add in the previous cost of
unit #1 retirement costs of $40K (assuming unit #1 is still living as most live at least 8 to 10yrs) also add in
ret Cost Of Living increases.
In 5 or 6 yrs the early buy-out could cost unit #2 $125K + unit #1 ret costs @ (base $40K + COL) $45K.

Unit #2 at $125K +unit #1 cost of $45K =$170K that's $30K more then the current unit#1 cost of $140K.
Net loss of $30K per unit replacement and that's not adding medical cost increases.

The most a professor makes is a little over $120k. That's full rank at the top of the schedule. Starting pay at the lowest rank is about $60k. Plus you can assume that the younger replacement also comes with lower medical insurance plan costs, the retirement match is lower, etc. Multiply that by 20 and you've got some big savings.

[Fightingscot82]

Didn't you tell me to go on Google and check for the last state funded school to close???? So, now we see that it is a possibility, and it's not as stupid and irresponsible as you accused me of. I'm not saying it will happen in the state system, but, all of us really don't know what the future lies, and people should be looking at all kinds of options. Next time you see the leader of PASSHE, maybe mention to him that we need to fund athletics with state dollars like other states do. It's all about priorities. I know of one state school that had a Psych department that had 8 or 9 faculty members, but no one had graduated with a psych degree in like 5 years. And, yet, nothing changed. Hard decisions may have to be made, and some we may not like. Has anybody ever seen Administrator's furloughed? Or
had positions cut? There will likely be changes. Hopefully everybody survives, but these kinds of things often give people excuses to do things that they'd really like to do , but don't want to pay a political penalty for it.

Didn't you tell me to go on Google and check for the last state funded school to close???? So, now we see that it is a possibility, and it's not as stupid and irresponsible as you accused me of. I'm not saying it will happen in the state system, but, all of us really don't know what the future lies, and people should be looking at all kinds of options. Next time you see the leader of PASSHE, maybe mention to him that we need to fund athletics with state dollars like other states do. It's all about priorities. I know of one state school that had a Psych department that had 8 or 9 faculty members, but no one had graduated with a psych degree in like 5 years. And, yet, nothing changed. Hard decisions may have to be made, and some we may not like. Has anybody ever seen Administrator's furloughed? Or
had positions cut? There will likely be changes. Hopefully everybody survives, but these kinds of things often give people excuses to do things that they'd really like to do , but don't want to pay a political penalty for it.

It would have to be a shocking cut to close a PASSHE school.

Psychology is a department that doesn't need a degree to exist. Students take psychology as general education requirements, education majors need to take developmental psychology, etc. Most faculty are unionized so cutting without a vacancy gets ugly. Especially in PASSHE. I know someone who was a finalist for a PASSHE presidency but faculty remembered when he/she was a dean and didn't fight "hard enough" against retrenchment. Needless to say the union fought hard enough to keep him/her from getting the job.

[Dirty Harry]

It would have to be a shocking cut to close a PASSHE school.

Psychology is a department that doesn't need a degree to exist. Students take psychology as general education requirements, education majors need to take developmental psychology, etc. Most faculty are unionized so cutting without a vacancy gets ugly. Especially in PASSHE. I know someone who was a finalist for a PASSHE presidency but faculty remembered when he/she was a dean and didn't fight "hard enough" against retrenchment. Needless to say the union fought hard enough to keep him/her from getting the job.

Your right. My point about the psych department was that they could probably have cut that group in half in that particular situation. I don't really see anything changing at this point, but, who knows?

[Fightingscot82]

Your right. My point about the psych department was that they could probably have cut that group in half in that particular situation. I don't really see anything changing at this point, but, who knows?

I bet staffing will be leaner. Office budgets too. Unfortunately I worry that we're starting to get into the bone at some schools and the students will notice. One fewer academic advisor or a larger freshman English class can hurt retention.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Students at 25+ schools filing suit over the poor quality of online education ... want refunds. Interesting.

[CHIP72]

If the system doesn't take this opportunity to 1) merge them with WCU or 2) close them down, using COVID19 as an excuse, I will be less than impressed with their management savvy.

I wonder if Cheyney would merge with Lincoln University instead (and yes, I realize Lincoln is not a PASSHE member). It does seem that a merger with either Lincoln or West Chester is the only way some portion of the institution known as Cheyney University will survive in the longer term.