PASSHE Institutions Merging

[complaint_hopeful]

It's behind a paywall, but I wish I could show you all the Gartner quadrants for colleges. It ties in with a lot of these discussions. Like there's one for prestigious schools. They can charge whatever and people will go. 4 categories. Now schools can kind of straddle 2 categories sometimes.

The PASSHE Schools are arguably in the worst one to be in. And while the demographics in PA shrink, the amount of students considering schools in that quadrant is also shrinking. It's kind of the perfect storm.

But, then when a Penn State or Pitt, who are in a different quadrant...lower their prices. It takes students from us.

[Fightingscot82]

The downside is that now Pitt and PennState are taking kids with lower SATs , that would have gone to IUP - those 1150 kids who are really hard workers are not going to IUP in droves any more. Then there is the branches that offer the R1 name. But the Science building is long over due, and will definitely help recruiting. The other problem is Science programs are expensive, and rarely make money, its more the ancillary preprofessional programs like premed, pre PT, etc that foot the bill. And IUP's total costs are too high compared to other passhe schools that have already went after easy access to health programs as a selling point.

That's news to me and to a friend who is an administrator in that area of Pitt. Pitt did a new program for Pell qualifiers that brings their cost down into PASSHE territory. That hurts but could be temporary. Penn State is greatly leaning on out of state students - especially those from the Atlantic corridor who can afford to pay the nearly $50k/year cost of attendance for out of state students. I bet they'll start closing some of the underperforming "outlet store" campuses like Shenango.

Maybe you're thinking of Pitt going test-optional?

[complaint_hopeful]

The current science building was becoming the eyesore of campus, so this is a big improvement. I assume it will come down shortly after this new building is opened.

I've heard the old Foster Dining Hall is getting ready for the wrecking ball. I'll be interested to see what they do with that space. That's a prime spot on campus.

Pitt and PSU dropping admissions standards is not a good thing for our schools. You just have to wonder if eventually Pitt and PSU take over the entire system ... Penn State-Indiana ... Pitt-Slippery Rock, etc.

So before this Chancellor, PASSHE had a study of the system...and some of the recommendations were exactly that. That PASSHE partner up with a Pitt/PSU/ or one of the other schools like that. Temple? Villanova?

That said, I don't know how the logistics work. There are Pitts and Penn States everywhere. Maybe that's the trick. Where those schools are, bring in a Temple or Villanova?

[IUPbigINDIANS]

The downside is that now Pitt and PennState are taking kids with lower SATs , that would have gone to IUP - those 1150 kids who are really hard workers are not going to IUP in droves any more. Then there is the branches that offer the R1 name. But the Science building is long over due, and will definitely help recruiting. The other problem is Science programs are expensive, and rarely make money, its more the ancillary preprofessional programs like premed, pre PT, etc that foot the bill. And IUP's total costs are too high compared to other passhe schools that have already went after easy access to health programs as a selling point.

The current science building was becoming the eyesore of campus, so this is a big improvement. I assume it will come down shortly after this new building is opened.

I've heard the old Foster Dining Hall is getting ready for the wrecking ball. I'll be interested to see what they do with that space. That's a prime spot on campus.

Pitt and PSU dropping admissions standards is not a good thing for our schools. You just have to wonder if eventually Pitt and PSU take over the entire system ... Penn State-Indiana ... Pitt-Slippery Rock, etc.

[ironmaniup]

The plan for the west is that campuses will be picked to host a major. Students at that campus will attend in person, students at others will take it online.

I don't think facilities are a way out of this mess. Otherwise we should have been doing better. IUP *has* to market its value proposition: research university experience at a state college price. It's not a tagline or slogan. If you want an R1 education but can't afford the flagships, IUP is your place. If you want that small campus charm maybe look elsewhere.

The downside is that now Pitt and PennState are taking kids with lower SATs , that would have gone to IUP - those 1150 kids who are really hard workers are not going to IUP in droves any more. Then there is the branches that offer the R1 name. But the Science building is long over due, and will definitely help recruiting. The other problem is Science programs are expensive, and rarely make money, its more the ancillary preprofessional programs like premed, pre PT, etc that foot the bill. And IUP's total costs are too high compared to other passhe schools that have already went after easy access to health programs as a selling point.

[Fightingscot82]

Considering it is still 1957 in some areas of the Commonwealth...it's not all that surprising.

I still think these mergers are a mistake. Bloomsburg is going to be dragged down because of it and I don't think it will really help Lock Haven at all.

The west schools are just too far apart. Oh yeah...you are on the Mon Valley campus but the class you want is only offered at Edinboro this semester. Have fun on your trip up 79.

I just received my IUP Magazine (I'm surprised they are still sending it out) and I believe deep down that the new Science building will pull IUP out of it's downslide. That's really going to be a crown jewel for the school to go along with the new tower they built behind the library. The IUP campus has never been in better shape...kids should be walking around pretty impressed. Now they just need the majors that kids need for employment today.

I really wish IUP could buy the hospital...and have their own medical education maybe partnered with a health system that UPMC hasn't put out of business. I mean it wouldn't be a full blown medical school but maybe it could train Physician Assistants, Nurse Practitioners and Registered Nurses for rural health needs. It seems there is a big disconnect out there for health services in rural areas and IUP could be training people who could work in those areas to give medical needs that don't require hospitalization.

The plan for the west is that campuses will be picked to host a major. Students at that campus will attend in person, students at others will take it online.

I don't think facilities are a way out of this mess. Otherwise we should have been doing better. IUP *has* to market its value proposition: research university experience at a state college price. It's not a tagline or slogan. If you want an R1 education but can't afford the flagships, IUP is your place. If you want that small campus charm maybe look elsewhere.

[IUPNation]

They're working on that and there has been progress. The wheels of change are slow though to even get certain deals in place.

Considering it is still 1957 in some areas of the Commonwealth...it's not all that surprising.

I still think these mergers are a mistake. Bloomsburg is going to be dragged down because of it and I don't think it will really help Lock Haven at all.

The west schools are just too far apart. Oh yeah...you are on the Mon Valley campus but the class you want is only offered at Edinboro this semester. Have fun on your trip up 79.

I just received my IUP Magazine (I'm surprised they are still sending it out) and I believe deep down that the new Science building that was featured in the main article will pull IUP out of it's downslide. That's really going to be a crown jewel for the school to go along with the new tower they built behind the library. The IUP campus has never been in better shape...kids should be walking around pretty impressed. Now they just need the majors that kids need for employment today.

I really wish IUP could buy the hospital...and have their own medical education maybe partnered with a health system that UPMC hasn't put out of business. I mean it wouldn't be a full blown medical school but maybe it could train Physician Assistants, Nurse Practitioners and Registered Nurses for rural health needs. It seems there is a big disconnect out there for health services in rural areas and IUP could be training people who could work in those areas to give medical needs that don't require hospitalization.

[complaint_hopeful]

To me, that should have been the first step of reform, to get all non educational operating expenses like that well under control, so that each school can benefit from bulk purchasing power by Harrisburg.

You don't need people in Sutton Hall making those deals.

They're working on that and there has been progress. The wheels of change are slow though to even get certain deals in place.

[complaint_hopeful]

Another great point! And there are so many colleges in PA and then you have the major online providers too. These schools don't have a prestigious brand. The state funding makes them have to raise tuition higher too. And the PA demographic is bad.

But, this situation seems to largely be treated like the schools just are terribly managed. I think they could be more efficient in some ways, but a lot of the issues are out of their control.

[complaint_hopeful]

Yes! Pa is 47th in state funding.

I keep saying it, but how many other state systems in the US would struggle if their state funding was cut to pa levels???

[complaint_hopeful]

Initially, the thinking is that the smaller schools are destined to become satellites of the biggest school. The administration is at the biggest school. Obviously, if it ends up that they can only have one athletics program that would be a game-changer.

But it is true that we don't know how decisions will be made. How will the unified admissions program function? That's a big thing. Do applicants apply to a specific campus? Do students get assigned a campus? (When Penn State said 'groundhog, you're going to do 2 years of hard labor in Altoona' I said no thanks.).

How will the marketing and promoting the brand work?

I understand your concerns. Since LHU and MU are the schools with excess capacity will they try to fill in the gap at those schools?

I guess we have to wait until the end of April to find out more.

Interestingly, I just checked. BU has 57 undergrad majors, LHU has 47 and MU has 27. Fields of study overlap to a great extent at Bloom and Lock Haven.

A lot of the How this works...is up in the air...or atleast not public yet.

For Admissions, I've heard it talked about where when you apply you have a Home campus.

Marketing? Probably 1 website with small campus sections.. but 1 Academic program section.

And not only do these decisions need made, but this stuff all needs implemented. Yeah that website needs created. Those programs need designed.

Also, don't be surprised if the NE and West do things differently. Atleast some things.

[IUPNation]

You are right, but the state schools located near population centers seem to be doing alright. Seven years ago a West Chester trustee and Senator said:



As for the merger, Mansfield, Lock Haven, and Bloom will now be one university, as will the western university. They will probably have to support each other as a self-contained unit, and not get any more help from the remaining eight universities. The weak are told to huddle together, while West Chester rakes in the cash.

[Bart]

You are right, but the state schools located near population centers seem to be doing alright. Seven years ago a West Chester trustee and Senator said:



As for the merger, Mansfield, Lock Haven, and Bloom will now be one university, as will the western university. They will probably have to support each other as a self-contained unit, and not get any more help from the remaining eight universities. The weak are told to huddle together, while West Chester rakes in the cash.

[iupgroundhog]

https://www.lockhaven.com/opinion/le...-universities/

Initially, the thinking is that the smaller schools are destined to become satellites of the biggest school. The administration is at the biggest school. Obviously, if it ends up that they can only have one athletics program that would be a game-changer.

But it is true that we don't know how decisions will be made. How will the unified admissions program function? That's a big thing. Do applicants apply to a specific campus? Do students get assigned a campus? (When Penn State said 'groundhog, you're going to do 2 years of hard labor in Altoona' I said no thanks.).

How will the marketing and promoting the brand work?

I understand your concerns. Since LHU and MU are the schools with excess capacity will they try to fill in the gap at those schools?

I guess we have to wait until the end of April to find out more.

Interestingly, I just checked. BU has 57 undergrad majors, LHU has 47 and MU has 27. Fields of study overlap to a great extent at Bloom and Lock Haven.

[IUPNation]

The point is rural public education needs help. They aren't Ivies or Penn State. It's not about going backward, only about maintaining access.