PASSHE Institutions Merging

[complaint_hopeful]

From the Chancellors Blog:

Revised plans do not address issues that were repeatedly raised, but are not grounded in the reality of our situation:

• A vote to integrate does not require a nod from Middle States and NCAA.The integration process has not lacked transparency. Every step along the way is exhaustively documented on the web; deliberations and debate are carried publicly in board meetings, legislative testimony, and hearings; engagement in the process has been encouraged and invited through aggressively-mounted marketing campaigns and countless meetings formally and informally with all stakeholder groups.

Chancellor's Blog: July 2021 (chancellorgreenstein.blogspot.com)

[Fightingscot82]

University consolidation plan should be delayed

https://www.post-gazette.com/opinion...s/202107130019

[WarriorVoice]

As the saying goes, you don't get promoted by building up the rainy day fund! But quite often, building the rainy day fund when times are good is EXACTLY the right strategy.

As for what will work now, the things proposed might be too little, too late. 7-8 years ago, they probably would have worked. Sadly, the longer you let somthing fester, like declining enrollment, the more drastic the response has to be. As I've pointed out before with regard to the problems Cheyney was having, other PASSHE schools were hiding their problems behind them...when Cheyney "went away" as a shield, focus fell to the next tier of failing schools. Everyone seems to be focusing attention on those 4-6 schools and almost ignoring the dramatic enrollment and debt problems being experiences by all but one of the other PASSHE schools.

I think one of the things that would help would be for the PASSHE to come out and declare what their enrollment expectations are for each school. Doing that would give the public AND school leaders a measurable metric to build to. Building to a projected student body of 1500 students is quite a bit different than building to 5000 and 5000 is quite a bit different than building to 10000.

Whatever happened to "A penny saved is a penny earned." LOL

[Bart]

https://www.ncnewsonline.com/news/lo..._medium=social

[complaint_hopeful]

As the saying goes, you don't get promoted by building up the rainy day fund! But quite often, building the rainy day fund when times are good is EXACTLY the right strategy.

As for what will work now, the things proposed might be too little, too late. 7-8 years ago, they probably would have worked. Sadly, the longer you let somthing fester, like declining enrollment, the more drastic the response has to be. As I've pointed out before with regard to the problems Cheyney was having, other PASSHE schools were hiding their problems behind them...when Cheyney "went away" as a shield, focus fell to the next tier of failing schools. Everyone seems to be focusing attention on those 4-6 schools and almost ignoring the dramatic enrollment and debt problems being experiences by all but one of the other PASSHE schools.

I think one of the things that would help would be for the PASSHE to come out and declare what their enrollment expectations are for each school. Doing that would give the public AND school leaders a measurable metric to build to. Building to a projected student body of 1500 students is quite a bit different than building to 5000 and 5000 is quite a bit different than building to 10000.

I think for the West Triad, it could take 10-15 years to dig out of the hole they're in.

Pay close attention to the Fall enrollment too. I've heard some rumblings and we're about a month away from kids being on campus for Fall. So won't be able to say it's early still when they talk about the numbers.

[complaint_hopeful]

I think that latter part should have been a long-term strategy and still could be. To the ignorant, a 1,500 student school looks like its failing. But if the budget is balanced and that model is sustainable, that's a good thing to offer an alternative to the 10,000 student school and maybe points in between.

That's exactly what is needed to form an economy of scale. Simply growing to grow isn't always what's best if you have to take on more debt to get there.

[Fightingscot82]

As the saying goes, you don't get promoted by building up the rainy day fund! But quite often, building the rainy day fund when times are good is EXACTLY the right strategy.

As for what will work now, the things proposed might be too little, too late. 7-8 years ago, they probably would have worked. Sadly, the longer you let somthing fester, like declining enrollment, the more drastic the response has to be. As I've pointed out before with regard to the problems Cheyney was having, other PASSHE schools were hiding their problems behind them...when Cheyney "went away" as a shield, focus fell to the next tier of failing schools. Everyone seems to be focusing attention on those 4-6 schools and almost ignoring the dramatic enrollment and debt problems being experiences by all but one of the other PASSHE schools.

I think one of the things that would help would be for the PASSHE to come out and declare what their enrollment expectations are for each school. Doing that would give the public AND school leaders a measurable metric to build to. Building to a projected student body of 1500 students is quite a bit different than building to 5000 and 5000 is quite a bit different than building to 10000.

I think that latter part should have been a long-term strategy and still could be. To the ignorant, a 1,500 student school looks like its failing. But if the budget is balanced and that model is sustainable, that's a good thing to offer an alternative to the 10,000 student school and maybe points in between.

[boatcapt]

No doubt. There was a lot of excess in building and hiring. Had they not went to such excess...some schools would be better off.

As far as other strategies? Maybe cooperating. Focusing on retention. Some of the things they're looking at now. Developing new programs that are in demand. Agreements with community colleges. Lobbying for more state assistance. The usual suspects.

As the saying goes, you don't get promoted by building up the rainy day fund! But quite often, building the rainy day fund when times are good is EXACTLY the right strategy.

As for what will work now, the things proposed might be too little, too late. 7-8 years ago, they probably would have worked. Sadly, the longer you let somthing fester, like declining enrollment, the more drastic the response has to be. As I've pointed out before with regard to the problems Cheyney was having, other PASSHE schools were hiding their problems behind them...when Cheyney "went away" as a shield, focus fell to the next tier of failing schools. Everyone seems to be focusing attention on those 4-6 schools and almost ignoring the dramatic enrollment and debt problems being experiences by all but one of the other PASSHE schools.

I think one of the things that would help would be for the PASSHE to come out and declare what their enrollment expectations are for each school. Doing that would give the public AND school leaders a measurable metric to build to. Building to a projected student body of 1500 students is quite a bit different than building to 5000 and 5000 is quite a bit different than building to 10000.

[Fightingscot82]

I agree with all you said/pointed out.

There were probably a number of ways that the individual schools could have worked through the decline in the number of available students. But dramatic changes in strategy every few years was a guaranteed ticket to failure...Which the PASSHE as a whole and individual schools are having to live with now.

While I dislike lawyers as a group much more, I do dislike Faculty/Teachers Groups almost as much...Seems like there only focus is increasing their employment opportunities or protecting their members from any accountability.

I don't imagine this will happen, but it would be an interesting experiment to see what a successful business leader would do if he/she were hired as the president of a PASSHE school.

https://cheyney.edu/who-we-are/leade...sident-walton/

[complaint_hopeful]

I agree with all you said/pointed out.

There were probably a number of ways that the individual schools could have worked through the decline in the number of available students. But dramatic changes in strategy every few years was a guaranteed ticket to failure...Which the PASSHE as a whole and individual schools are having to live with now.

While I dislike lawyers as a group much more, I do dislike Faculty/Teachers Groups almost as much...Seems like there only focus is increasing their employment opportunities or protecting their members from any accountability.

I don't imagine this will happen, but it would be an interesting experiment to see what a successful business leader would do if he/she were hired as the president of a PASSHE school.

No doubt. There was a lot of excess in building and hiring. Had they not went to such excess...some schools would be better off.

As far as the hiring, one of the reasons these schools need so many employees is because their process maturity isn't high. If they'd just work on that, the customer service and quality would improve. (I realize that when I talk about process maturity...the point typically hasn't landed on these boards.)

As far as other strategies? Maybe cooperating. Focusing on retention. Some of the things they're looking at now. Developing new programs that are in demand. Agreements with community colleges. Lobbying for more state assistance. The usual suspects.

[boatcapt]

One of the long game issues with individual PASSHE campuses is that everyone but upper management are union. So managers are at-will without contracts (except the president). Since PASSHE president jobs have below average salary & location and above average politics & bureaucracy, turnover is also above average. A new president comes in and has a different vision, strategic priorities, and demands. If he/she wants a particular admissions strategy, the VP of Enrollment Management and Director of Admissions must comply or else they're out of a job. Same goes for alumni engagement & fundraising. Or academic program development. But then 3 or 4 years later a new president comes along with a new vision & strategy. There's no consistency and nearly every president is trying to prove themselves so they can flip a PASSHE presidency for a better paying presidency. This 100% happened at Edinboro. One president worked to attract wealthier students and was convinced he could push through population decline. The next president wanted to increase access since the region lacked a community college so she ordered admission standard to be opened up to 99%. Then the next president reversed course and Edinboro went to the highest admission standard in the system without any waiver from the admissions formula.

Why do I bring this up? Every president had an aggressive plan to grow their school then either jumped ship or resigned when things didn't work out and got difficult. Yeah they overbuilt but NOBODY with oversight (trustees, chancellor/system office, or system board) called them on it until enrollment dipped and the bond debt started weighing the schools down. Millions borrowed without much opposition. Nobody in Harrisburg told them no.

But my experience on PASSHE presidential searches is that a) faculty have too much influence and b) there's no clear consensus of which skills/expertise the schools need in a presidency. Edinboro was clearly in need of someone who understood what gets students in the door (recruiting strategy) and what keeps them there (student experience) and possibly someone who is a great fundraiser but the committee voted to rule out anyone without an academic faculty background (provosts and deans only). That meant they passed on one of the three finalists from the previous search 3 years earlier, a VP of Enrollment at a major university but with local ties, a VP of Student Affairs within PASSHE, and several sitting college presidents. It defied logic. I love Edinboro with all my heart but after that experience I learned that they deserve to be where they are.

I agree with all you said/pointed out.

There were probably a number of ways that the individual schools could have worked through the decline in the number of available students. But dramatic changes in strategy every few years was a guaranteed ticket to failure...Which the PASSHE as a whole and individual schools are having to live with now.

While I dislike lawyers as a group much more, I do dislike Faculty/Teachers Groups almost as much...Seems like there only focus is increasing their employment opportunities or protecting their members from any accountability.

I don't imagine this will happen, but it would be an interesting experiment to see what a successful business leader would do if he/she were hired as the president of a PASSHE school.

[Fightingscot82]

Poor management and lack of willingness to accept enrolement trends that were staring them in the face should not be underestimated in the current PASSHE situation. But there wasn't a lot of complaining from the academic side either when the schools were hiring additional faculty, the administrative side when the schools were adding additional support staff or alumni/students when new dorms were being built, new academic buildings built and new sports complexes built. The "sugar rush" fueled by the enrollment bubble was not limited to just management so now all sides are going to have to feel the morning after hangover that comes with their reckless spending/hiring/building.

Worth noting, 10 years ago PA chose to artaficially boost PASSHE funding with Federal Recovery Act money. This federal money increased state funding to PASSHE by over 25%. Problem was that was "temporary" money that the state could not hope to sustain. But again, schools spent it like it would be permanent.

It would be interesting to compare the amount of state funds that go to each PASSHE school indirectly in the form of student grants/scholarships. I would imagine that information is available somewhere.

One of the long game issues with individual PASSHE campuses is that everyone but upper management are union. So managers are at-will without contracts (except the president). Since PASSHE president jobs have below average salary & location and above average politics & bureaucracy, turnover is also above average. A new president comes in and has a different vision, strategic priorities, and demands. If he/she wants a particular admissions strategy, the VP of Enrollment Management and Director of Admissions must comply or else they're out of a job. Same goes for alumni engagement & fundraising. Or academic program development. But then 3 or 4 years later a new president comes along with a new vision & strategy. There's no consistency and nearly every president is trying to prove themselves so they can flip a PASSHE presidency for a better paying presidency. This 100% happened at Edinboro. One president worked to attract wealthier students and was convinced he could push through population decline. The next president wanted to increase access since the region lacked a community college so she ordered admission standard to be opened up to 99%. Then the next president reversed course and Edinboro went to the highest admission standard in the system without any waiver from the admissions formula.

Why do I bring this up? Every president had an aggressive plan to grow their school then either jumped ship or resigned when things didn't work out and got difficult. Yeah they overbuilt but NOBODY with oversight (trustees, chancellor/system office, or system board) called them on it until enrollment dipped and the bond debt started weighing the schools down. Millions borrowed without much opposition. Nobody in Harrisburg told them no.

But my experience on PASSHE presidential searches is that a) faculty have too much influence and b) there's no clear consensus of which skills/expertise the schools need in a presidency. Edinboro was clearly in need of someone who understood what gets students in the door (recruiting strategy) and what keeps them there (student experience) and possibly someone who is a great fundraiser but the committee voted to rule out anyone without an academic faculty background (provosts and deans only). That meant they passed on one of the three finalists from the previous search 3 years earlier, a VP of Enrollment at a major university but with local ties, a VP of Student Affairs within PASSHE, and several sitting college presidents. It defied logic. I love Edinboro with all my heart but after that experience I learned that they deserve to be where they are.

[boatcapt]

So on the surface recruiting seems like an issue. But, the 2010 high was a bubble that wasn't sustainable. Probably no matter what they did, they weren't going to maintain that.

And people knew that, yet these campuses went on wile building sprees that resulted in $100's of millions of debt. I believe the West Triad has 2 schools with $100+ million debt each for instance. And yes, PASSHE and I believe the BOG had to sign off on this construction. Which is yet another example of poor governance. You need to be looking to the future and know you can't carry that debt.

Without that debt, things would be looking better now.

I do concede that these schools probably could be recruiting better than they do though. I just don't think that alone would be enough. I think the debt payments are a killer.

Another point I want to make is PA is what 47th in state funding? If you take any of the 46 above us back to their 2000 level of state funding, how many would be having similar issues? I know atleast some would have to.

The grants and other state money is interesting. The Nellie Bly scholarship falls into that. I'd be interested in hearing more about the positive impacts on enrollment? Or do you get students who were coming anyways for instance?

Poor management and lack of willingness to accept enrolement trends that were staring them in the face should not be underestimated in the current PASSHE situation. But there wasn't a lot of complaining from the academic side either when the schools were hiring additional faculty, the administrative side when the schools were adding additional support staff or alumni/students when new dorms were being built, new academic buildings built and new sports complexes built. The "sugar rush" fueled by the enrollment bubble was not limited to just management so now all sides are going to have to feel the morning after hangover that comes with their reckless spending/hiring/building.

Worth noting, 10 years ago PA chose to artaficially boost PASSHE funding with Federal Recovery Act money. This federal money increased state funding to PASSHE by over 25%. Problem was that was "temporary" money that the state could not hope to sustain. But again, schools spent it like it would be permanent.

It would be interesting to compare the amount of state funds that go to each PASSHE school indirectly in the form of student grants/scholarships. I would imagine that information is available somewhere.

[Fightingscot82]

PASSHE has an interesting thing for some construction projects. Like some (but not all) construction, you submit a proposal to the state for a building and if it gets approved, it gets largely funded out of state funding. I've kind of wondered if...when things turned bad...why they didn't stop doing this and use the money elsewhere. I'm not really sure what all goes into getting it approved.

Now, not all construction is like that. Like I know of a student union that was renovated and student fees went up to pay for it, etc.

They did. The construction happening now was approved YEARS ago. Its usually 3-5 years from application to groundbreaking. That also allows for inflation to increase the cost, which is picked up by the school.

[boatcapt]

Yes but alumni can also elect trustees. PASSHE can't. All school trustees and system board members are appointed by the governor or the state legislature and they have to be a PA resident. So we have absolutely no direct say in how our universities are run. I served two terms as president of my school's alumni association and I can tell you that any dissent with school leadership isn't tolerated.

That was the system that was set up by the legislature and governor. 10+ years ago when enrolement was up and coffers were full, not a lot of complaining. Now that times are hard, plenty of complaining about the system.

Seems like all six alumni associations, possibly along with current student groups, should band together and lobby their local state reps and demand a situation similar to what PSU/Pitt/Temple/Lincoln have were a number of each schools Board of Trustees is elected by the alumni/current students.