PASSHE Institutions Merging

[IUPNation]

PASSHE versus Penn State

https://www.inquirer.com/news/penn-s...-20210801.html

Penn State needs to be de funded by the state and that money transferred to the state system.

[Bart]

"In all, student housing projects across the state owned universities added about a $1.6 billion dollars in debt"


https://triblive.com/local/regional/...-universities/

[Bart]

PASSHE versus Penn State

https://www.inquirer.com/news/penn-s...-20210801.html

[boatcapt]

I get what you're saying. Sure. I'd like to see some championships. For the most part, Joe Public doesn't respect a DII championship any more than a DIII championship.

But I don't see how dropping to DIII saves money given the current setup. A lot of personnel costs are still dictated across the board by a union CBA regardless of classification. As I've pointed out countless times, PSAC West travel is pretty cheap & easy - changing to a new conference might actually increase travel costs. Much like the rest of this integration, the actual cost savings of moving down a classification may not be enough to justify the move.

Not knowing what the exact athletic budgets are at these six schools makes any savings difficult to assess. But in general terms, at least according to the NCAA, it costs half as much to field a D3 with football program as it does to field a DII with football program. But because there are so many unknowns, I purposely left the $ issue out of the question. Trying to determine if being able to say you are a DII partisipant trumps actual on field/court success at the D3 level. Is it more important to to fans and alumni to be a little fish in a preceived bigger pond or is it better to be a bigger fish in a smaller pond?

[iupgroundhog]

It was a question to see if people are more concerned with the level of their athletic teams or with their success.

Yes, I understood the purpose of your question. I just don't think it is a solution to anything because 2 will still be in the same division and you will still have the same questions about the competition between the schools.

[Fightingscot82]

It was a question to see if people are more concerned with the level of their athletic teams or with their success.

I get what you're saying. Sure. I'd like to see some championships. For the most part, Joe Public doesn't respect a DII championship any more than a DIII championship.

But I don't see how dropping to DIII saves money given the current setup. A lot of personnel costs are still dictated across the board by a union CBA regardless of classification. As I've pointed out countless times, PSAC West travel is pretty cheap & easy - changing to a new conference might actually increase travel costs. Much like the rest of this integration, the actual cost savings of moving down a classification may not be enough to justify the move.

[boatcapt]

I don't see how the D3 question is relevant. If you split a triad by division you will still have 2 of them in the same division. I am not sure what that would solve.

It was a question to see if people are more concerned with the level of their athletic teams or with their success.

[iupgroundhog]

Here's a question...If you were an alumni of one of the six schools and you were given a choice to be a middle of the pack team in your DII conference and non-entity for NC's OR be a consistent conference winner and national contender every year as a D3, which would you choose?

I don't see how the D3 question is relevant. If you split a triad by division you will still have 2 of them in the same division. I am not sure what that would solve.

[boatcapt]

Here's a question...If you were an alumni of one of the six schools and you were given a choice to be a middle of the pack team in your DII conference and non-entity for NC's OR be a consistent conference winner and national contender every year as a D3, which would you choose?

[Fightingscot82]

My guess would be that the stadium and arena and maintenance factor into costs a decent bit.

Maybe? There are still a lot of D2 stadiums that are multi-use just like D3 and not much larger. Still pretty rare for D2 to have anything more than a fieldhouse setup for basketball.

[complaint_hopeful]

Well...a new org chart of leadership got released today. In general, most of the Cabinet members at each school retained their positions at least through the Integration. Some people appear to have retired though so you'll see a person in a dual-role.

[complaint_hopeful]

That's an interesting number - I wonder what differences there are.

My guess would be that the stadium and arena and maintenance factor into costs a decent bit.

[Fightingscot82]

According to the NCAA average expenses of a DII athletic program with football is $6.6M (excluding schollys)...Again, according to the NCAA average average expenses of a D3 athletic program with football is $3.3M.

That's an interesting number - I wonder what differences there are.

[boatcapt]

I don't see what savings you think would come with DIII membership.

The athletic scholarships for DII status are all privately funded so it does nothing to cut campus expenses. Modest savings on coaching salaries and travel is already pretty cheap. The PSAC West is largely along the I-79 corridor so travel costs are good. Most other schools are pretty accessible between I-80 and I-76. Coach travel over the interstate is easier and cheaper than coach travel over state routes. They'd have to find a DIII conference that isn't pretentious - I doubt a conference with all private faith-based schools would welcome a handful of state schools that have little in common with their profiles, because that's what Western PA is full of. North Coast Athletic Conference is mostly rural Ohio (don't see any travel savings) and the Presidents Athletic Conference is mostly western PA faith-based privates with much higher academic profiles, so there might be some travel savings but imagine Clarion recruiting against Case Western and Carnegie Mellon.

According to the NCAA average expenses of a DII athletic program with football is $6.6M (excluding schollys)...Again, according to the NCAA average average expenses of a D3 athletic program with football is $3.3M.

[WarriorVoice]

The NCAA will decide what happens with athletics, and we won't know anything until after the consolidation takes place. If they don't approve the plan, then the conference will have a year to fix it according to the NCAA's recommendations.

In other news, looks like the SEC wants to be the largest conference in the country...