PASSHE Institutions Merging

[boatcapt]

I don't see any gain for Temple in that scenario. They're nowhere near the levels of Pitt and Penn State in terms of financial strength nor are they into the whole branch campus thing. I also don't see a gain for Penn State. Edinboro is 30 miles from one of the only two Penn State outlet stores that are doing well and in the same county. Cal is very close to Penn State Fayette. But Clarion is fairly isolated from other schools. They're about 30 minutes from Penn State DuBois but there's no real benefit there.

I note there is not much "gain" for any school merged with the PASSHE schools. I was answering a hypothetical question.

Didn't say the gain was for PS or Temple. Both schools endowments FAR exceed any of the remaining endowments for any PASSHE school so they would be better able to absorb the losses being incurred by the PASSHE schools they inherit. Once the schools were absorbed by PS and Temple, the two universities would determine the best course of action to either stabalize/grow them as quasi independent colleges or merge them within their current branch campus system.

The state has a hook into PS and Temple, that hook is state funding. Tell both that they either take the six schools, or they lose their state funding.

[Fightingscot82]

I do think the state should tell Pitt and Penn State that state dollars can no longer support 4 year residential experiences at their branches. I don't know how they do that but its gotta happen. Can't help fund something that directly competes with something you own.

[Fightingscot82]

The Cal/Boro/Clarion triumvirate with Penn State or the Bloom/Mansfield/Haven consolidation with Temple. Reason - Financial solvency of the remaining 8 schools in the PASSHE and force the burden of the failing schools on state funded schools with deeper pockets.

I don't see any gain for Temple in that scenario. They're nowhere near the levels of Pitt and Penn State in terms of financial strength nor are they into the whole branch campus thing. I also don't see a gain for Penn State. Edinboro is 30 miles from one of the only two Penn State outlet stores that are doing well and in the same county. Cal is very close to Penn State Fayette. But Clarion is fairly isolated from other schools. They're about 30 minutes from Penn State DuBois but there's no real benefit there.

[IUPNation]

So hypothetically, say you could merge a passhe school of your choice with any school in PA. Which pair would you make and why?

Nobody is worthy enough to be absorbed by IUP.

[boatcapt]

So hypothetically, say you could merge a passhe school of your choice with any school in PA. Which pair would you make and why?

The Cal/Boro/Clarion triumvirate with Penn State or the Bloom/Mansfield/Haven consolidation with Temple. Reason - Financial solvency of the remaining 8 schools in the PASSHE and force the burden of the failing schools on state funded schools with deeper pockets.

[Fightingscot82]

So hypothetically, say you could merge a passhe school of your choice with any school in PA. Which pair would you make and why?

Lincoln and Cheyney. Both are struggling, both have a niche market, similar history, etc. Sell the Cheyney campus for a huge infusion to the Lincoln endowment.

[complaint_hopeful]

So hypothetically, say you could merge a passhe school of your choice with any school in PA. Which pair would you make and why?

[boatcapt]

This article shows PASSHE enrollment 2010 compared to 2019. But, it also shows Penn State enrollment. Most of their branch campuses have lost similar enrollment levels to PASSHE numbers:

Quick point...the PS campuses are small compared to the PASSHE schools. Result is that each student lost by a PS campus equals a greater percentage than a student lost by a PASSHE.

[Fightingscot82]

This article shows PASSHE enrollment 2010 compared to 2019. But, it also shows Penn State enrollment. Most of their branch campuses have lost similar enrollment levels to PASSHE numbers:

Yes - because we're competing for a lot of the same students. I imagine some truly do connect with Pitt Greensburg or Penn State Mont Alto. Or it is the closest option. Who wouldn't want to go to college along I-80 at Penn State DuBois? But I imagine for most the selling point is name cache. Very few end up transferring to the mothership (the Penn State branches call the main campus "U-P" for University Park).

There are some truly all-star students who attend these schools because of geography or cost or whatever, but most are just extra PASSHE students. And that extra few thousand Penn State charges each year adds up - and thus their retention and graduation rates are just as bad if not worse. They run out of money a little faster and leave with a lot of debt and no degree.

[complaint_hopeful]

This article shows PASSHE enrollment 2010 compared to 2019. But, it also shows Penn State enrollment. Most of their branch campuses have lost similar enrollment levels to PASSHE numbers:

[Fightingscot82]

That's how I see that scenario playing out too.

Some of the mergers might be with like a Pitt or Penn State.

Interestingly, I don't see the Integrations as guaranteed to save some of these schools. I think that's still up in the air if it works and I eagerly await the presentation to the BOG where they show the number projections of the Integrations. What are enrollment projections? What are cost projections? How much savings are projected? I hope they include the assumptions they use. Like if they show a lot of growth, I want to see how they determined that.

So if it works, that's one path. But, IF the Integrations fail...that leads down a different road and is that road the dissolution of PASSHE road?

I don't see this happening at all. Pennsylvania doesn't own or control Pitt or Penn State. Giving them money is like a parent sending cash to a college student. Once that money is received its not accounted for. The *only* accountability Pitt and Penn State have for their hundreds of millions is that they must disclose their 5 highest paid employees. That's it. Private schools disclose more in their annual tax filings. Any financial information that goes public comes from press coverage of trustees meetings or other mandatory government reporting (such as athletics spending). So the legislature would have to strong-arm Pitt or Penn State into taking over a campus but I don't believe they want to.

As a whole, the Pitt and Penn State branches are failing enterprises. They have significantly lower admission standards, have a much lower hiring standard for academic faculty, and lose students and money as well as Cheyney or Mansfield. If they didn't have the Pitt or Penn State branding and instead were Hazleton State College they would have closed decades ago. But they're still valuable to the motherships because they are like an outlet store or a factory seconds store. It puts something otherwise unattainable within reach of lower and middle class Pennsylvanians and puts a ton of Pitt and Penn State branding out there on top of tens of thousands of "alumni" sporting Penn State or Pitt diplomas. This information is hidden from public view (and most of the media) because they're not subject to state open records law. If Pitt or Penn State knew how to run a successful second-tier campus they would have more.

[Fightingscot82]

Funny that 10 years into the PASSHE slide and some still need to be convinced that there is a problem!

Enrollment is very similar today to what it was in 2000. Problem is not only were the schools overstaffed but the state gives them $220M less.

[Fightingscot82]

Yep...You would have 14 state owned but non-affiliated schools. Budgets would probably be independently debated and voted on by the legislature. Some of the more failing schools would be forced to either close OR completely merge with other schools. Certainly alumni, local communities and faculty will argue against closings/mergings but in the long run, it is probably necessary.

That's how it was from when the state purchased each of the 14 schools in the 1910s until 1983.

[complaint_hopeful]

Funny that 10 years into the PASSHE slide and some still need to be convinced that there is a problem!

Indeed! And I do think that if PA wasn't 47th in funding...funding at the level they did in 2000 that this would be a different discussion now.

But, with the funding/enrollment/cost levels, this thing is failing as it's currently configured. You can cut costs so much, but growth is what is really needed...and it's going to be tough sledding in that area as there are so many schools.

I just don't know that the Integrations will save enough money to help. Wasn't it Georgia that saved less that a percent of costs Integrating?

[boatcapt]

That's how I see that scenario playing out too.

Some of the mergers might be with like a Pitt or Penn State.

Interestingly, I don't see the Integrations as guaranteed to save some of these schools. I think that's still up in the air if it works and I eagerly await the presentation to the BOG where they show the number projections. I hope they include the assumptions they use. Like if they show a lot of growth, I want to see how they determined that.

So if it works, that's one path. But, IF the Integrations fail...that leads down a different road and is that road the dissolution of PASSHE road?

Funny that 10 years into the PASSHE slide and some still need to be convinced that there is a problem!