PASSHE Institutions Merging

[complaint_hopeful]

"PASSHE plan diminishes IUP's prospects"
https://www.indianagazette.com/opini...ea2330ad7.html

Fear our PASSHE Mega Universities. 1st IUP. Next West Chester. Then we'll be ready to take out Pitt and Penn States enrollment!

All your base are belong to us!

In all seriousness, IF IUP can't pluck a bunch of potential Triad students away from these schools with all this negative press and uncertainty...they were going to decline anyways!

[complaint_hopeful]

I don't see the NCAA denying it. There is precedent for one university operating multiple NCAA departments among its non-autonomous campuses - Southern Illinois, Long Island (formerly), and Fairleigh Dickinson come to mind. I think what gets this shut down is that the people with true power and influence - BOG members and PA legislators - read the details. Unfortunately I doubt they will. The 30 second description sounds responsible and an uncomfortable necessary decision. The other 400 pages line up like an OANN election fraud story.

I think ultimately it can get worked through, but I think the NCAA will want some delineation. Like each campus has separate fin aid depts, etc. Things like that.

Great point on the whole report. It's spun as necessary and wow look at the positives. Well, we've discussed at length about the enrollment projects likely not being accurate.

Heck - What if the schools lose 1 to 20% enrollment BEFORE the Integration due to the bad press. Wouldn't that negate some of the report? <-- This might not be that far fetched either.

[Fightingscot82]

"PASSHE plan diminishes IUP's prospects"
https://www.indianagazette.com/opini...ea2330ad7.html

[Fightingscot82]

Great point. With Compliance being a key issue, how would all of that work? Maybe PASSHE is just using the NCAA as a means by which to make the decision for them that they may really want, which may be just making the triad in the east and west just one institution with branch campuses.

I don't see the NCAA denying it. There is precedent for one university operating multiple NCAA departments among its non-autonomous campuses - Southern Illinois, Long Island (formerly), and Fairleigh Dickinson come to mind. I think what gets this shut down is that the people with true power and influence - BOG members and PA legislators - read the details. Unfortunately I doubt they will. The 30 second description sounds responsible and an uncomfortable necessary decision. The other 400 pages line up like an OANN election fraud story.

[Cavalier 1]

I think because it's still up-in-the-air. ie It's not 100% settled that the NCAA will approve this. Actually, with all the unknowns...how could the NCAA approve it?

Great point. With Compliance being a key issue, how would all of that work? Maybe PASSHE is just using the NCAA as a means by which to make the decision for them that they may really want, which may be just making the triad in the east and west just one institution with branch campuses.

[iupgroundhog]

Pitt did draw down its failing Titusville campus to "outreach center" status and placed it under the control of Pitt-Bradford 70 miles away.

We're going to call it an Outreach Center. But it will be a powerhouse Outreach Center.

[complaint_hopeful]

Why do you say that? Other than the annual handout and guaranteed spots on their boards, the Commonwealth has absolutely no control of how Pitt or Penn State operate? It is my understanding that the campuses get to collect their tuition and fees but there is also supplemental money from the mothership. Unsure of what happens at the end of the year with surplus funds. Obviously the mothership plugs any budget holes as possible. Local budget is approved by mothership leadership but from there all offices are under local control. There is some dotted line oversight from State College and Oakland down to the local campuses for consistency sake but the Pitt Johnstown financial aid office reports to wherever it falls on the Pitt Johnstown org chart.

Pitt did draw down its failing Titusville campus to "outreach center" status and placed it under the control of Pitt-Bradford 70 miles away.

Penn State operates an athletic conference (the Pennsylvania State University Athletic Conference) solely for 14 of its campuses with three full-time employees and a faculty teaching load reduction for a FAR. Yet we're arguing public waste for a Director of Multicultural Student Programming.

It would seem those schools competing with each other would be different. Because while all Pitt in name...they have aspects of individual entities. These new Triads won't have that individuality.

We'll see how it plays out. I could see the ncaa ruling going either way. No sense losing sleep over this until that ruling comes.

As I understand it, there's still a lot to be worked out with academics/program array. And to go live Aug 22...that stuff needs to start to happen and be worked out by live Dec. Maybe sooner to market it.

My prediction is that they finally realize they have a major issue with some of this stuff and pump the brakes on some of it. Just an opinion.

[Fightingscot82]

Is Pitt set up identical? Like 1 budget for all campuses? 1 Fin Aid Dept? 1 Admissions? 1 Athletic Dept? <-- I think those are the things that will come into play here.

Why do you say that? Other than the annual handout and guaranteed spots on their boards, the Commonwealth has absolutely no control of how Pitt or Penn State operate? It is my understanding that the campuses get to collect their tuition and fees but there is also supplemental money from the mothership. Unsure of what happens at the end of the year with surplus funds. Obviously the mothership plugs any budget holes as possible. Local budget is approved by mothership leadership but from there all offices are under local control. There is some dotted line oversight from State College and Oakland down to the local campuses for consistency sake but the Pitt Johnstown financial aid office reports to wherever it falls on the Pitt Johnstown org chart.

Pitt did draw down its failing Titusville campus to "outreach center" status and placed it under the control of Pitt-Bradford 70 miles away.

Penn State operates an athletic conference (the Pennsylvania State University Athletic Conference) solely for 14 of its campuses with three full-time employees and a faculty teaching load reduction for a FAR. Yet we're arguing public waste for a Director of Multicultural Student Programming.

[complaint_hopeful]

Good point. Why can't there be a statement from the NCAA or PASSHE as reassurance?

I think because it's still up-in-the-air. ie It's not 100% settled that the NCAA will approve this. Actually, with all the unknowns...how could the NCAA approve it?

[complaint_hopeful]

Is Pitt set up identical? Like 1 budget for all campuses? 1 Fin Aid Dept? 1 Admissions? 1 Athletic Dept? <-- I think those are the things that will come into play here.

[iupgroundhog]

I doubt it. Southern Illinois already has two campuses in the same division as are almost all of the Penn State campuses.

Good point. Why can't there be a statement from the NCAA or PASSHE as reassurance?

[Fightingscot82]

What would happen IF the NCAA comes back and says that these schools can't compete in the same divisions? That one can be D2? One D3? <-- What are your thoughts on that? I don't think it's too far fetched to think that this could happen.

I doubt it. Southern Illinois already has two campuses in the same division as are almost all of the Penn State campuses.

[complaint_hopeful]

What would happen IF the NCAA comes back and says that these schools can't compete in the same divisions? That one can be D2? One D3? <-- What are your thoughts on that? I don't think it's too far fetched to think that this could happen.

[iupgroundhog]

If its heralded as such it will be promoted purely by the people whose legacies are tied to it: Greenstein, system board chair Shapira, and the integration presidents Hanna & Pehrrson.

That is yet to be seen. I think that if they get this plan through it will fail and no PR effort will have any credence. The numbers will tell the story..

[Fightingscot82]

Absolutely...and their PR teams. PASSHE is quite masterful at PR. From what I see, it's their best capability by far.

They can spin anything into some amazingly successful project...

They do a pretty good job at talking about what they actually do well...at appropriation time. Somehow forget how the other 11 months.

There are some short-sighted trustees who will also regurgitate the boiler plate talking points as well. I sat through some meetings with PASSHE school trustees patting themselves on the back while their schools sink into the abyss at various speeds.