PASSHE Institutions Merging

[complaint_hopeful]

I agree and I said this during my time on the little charade of a focus group with the marketing agency. The *only* thing that give these schools market competiveness is geography and cost. Geography isn't changing so the only way to improve is to make them cheaper to attend. Problem is that its like running a hospital: if you cut doctors, you also decrease billable procedures. You can't reduce costs without it affecting revenue. The easiest (and certainly not easy) way to do this is with an infusion of state funding. Restore the funding levels to pre-Great Recession levels since enrollment is now there in exchange for holding the line on tuition.

Yep. As far as cost...so there is a goal to reduce cost to educate or some similar wording by 25%. So people initially saw that and was like - It's going to cost 25% less for students! Well I think I saw in the plan that they're forecasting 1% cost increases too.

So they want to lower costs by 25% and charge 1% more. That's going to be hard to do. Really hard to do.

There was something interesting in the West report about like 73% of students taking classes in one of 6 programs. I thought that was interesting. (Going off the top of my head here so numbers might be slightly off.)

So to recap, they want to :
1 ) Create a new entitiy with no branding history. Yet, also preserve the old identity. (Seemingly conflicting goals.) Like will email address domains stay the same? 1 website or 3? You have to pick a lane on this stuff.
2 ) Reduce costs by 25%
3 ) Increase tuition by 1%
4 ) Take 3 schools that have traditionally lost enrollment for nearly a decade - semester over semester...and immediately make it grow by 1%.
5 ) They claim employee losses will mainly be attrition from retirements, so presumably the people in positions that aren't needed will retire so they don't have to rehire it. (I joke...because what happens is people leave, some in positions that are needed...and they don't rehire them.)

[Fightingscot82]

Interestingly, I see they forecast 1% growth a year for students. So schools losing enrollment independently each year will combine and start growing immediately? That seems a bit overly optimistic.

I would anticipate they'll lose enrollment initially. Then, maybe they do gain.

I agree and I said this during my time on the little charade of a focus group with the marketing agency. The *only* thing that give these schools market competiveness is geography and cost. Geography isn't changing so the only way to improve is to make them cheaper to attend. Problem is that its like running a hospital: if you cut doctors, you also decrease billable procedures. You can't reduce costs without it affecting revenue. The easiest (and certainly not easy) way to do this is with an infusion of state funding. Restore the funding levels to pre-Great Recession levels since enrollment is now there in exchange for holding the line on tuition.

[complaint_hopeful]

LOL ironically one of the suggestions for academic growth is the creation of a cannabis science certificate.

But yes, the 6 schools in question have nearly $470 million in construction debt. Mansfield owes the system $7 million in operational debt.

Their subliminal advertising campaign has been VERY effective. I didn't even realized it worked on me until I typed that.

I'd be interested in knowing what it would cost to close these schools IF they didn't have all that bond debt? Would seem the cost would be fairly low. Like $10-20 million? At that point, it might be less than the cross subsidy burden.

[complaint_hopeful]

Interestingly, I see they forecast 1% growth a year for students. So schools losing enrollment independently each year will combine and start growing immediately? That seems a bit overly optimistic.

I would anticipate they'll lose enrollment initially. Then, maybe they do gain.

[Fightingscot82]

In the West, I saw that the 3 schools each had nearly over $100 million in bong obligations. I think that would be a big part of it. I think the lowest was like $90 or so million.

LOL ironically one of the suggestions for academic growth is the creation of a cannabis science certificate.

But yes, the 6 schools in question have nearly $470 million in construction debt. Mansfield owes the system $7 million in operational debt.

[complaint_hopeful]

I'm interested in learning more about what the system constitutes costs to close down a campus. I'm going to assume that this made up of liquidating equipment, removing signage, mothballing facilities, and layoff costs for employees. There's got to be some sort of annual cost as well to maintain the property at the bare minimum. Can't just let everything get overgrown.

In the West, I saw that the 3 schools each had nearly over $100 million in bond obligations. I think that would be a big part of it. I think the lowest was like $90 or so million.

[Fightingscot82]

Because a large swath get their information from national punditry. There's a rural Crawford County state legislator who made his mark by posting rhetorical questions on his Facebook pages. Lately most of his posts are about national issues like immigration or second amendment rights. Naturally people living in places like Conneaut Lake, Guys Mills, and Titusville get up in arms over these topics. Yet the guy works in Harrisburg. For Pennsylvania. Oh, he sits on the PASSHE board too. He's a buffoon who will likely remain in office until he quits or another Republican somehow unseats him.

There's actually a group of academics who study how states support colleges and universities - and they specialize in how state-funded higher ed benefits rural America. One of them actually grew up in Edinboro, PA. He recently published something worth reading.

https://medium.com/@koricichma/propo...s-5a3500fc65c6

[Fightingscot82]

re: Closing schools in the West - Requires legislative action and between $100 million to $287 million per university, for a total of $660 million to offset closing costs.

THAT'S why no schools would close.

I'm interested in learning more about what the system constitutes costs to close down a campus. I'm going to assume that this made up of liquidating equipment, removing signage, mothballing facilities, and layoff costs for employees. There's got to be some sort of annual cost as well to maintain the property at the bare minimum. Can't just let everything get overgrown.

[IUPNation]

re: Closing schools in the West - Requires legislative action and between $100 million to $287 million per university, for a total of $660 million to offset closing costs.

THAT'S why no schools would close.

[IUPNation]

I don't know if that's necessarily true. The case for support of public education has never been less welcomed. A lot of PA folks don't understand the basic math of why subsidized education is a common economic benefit. Its especially true for the future as our population dwindles and rural jobs continue to evaporate. But they'll continue to blame woes on brown-skinned immigrants and the myth of the black welfare state.

[complaint_hopeful]

re: Closing schools in the West - Requires legislative action and between $100 million to $287 million per university, for a total of $660 million to offset closing costs.

THAT'S why no schools would close.

[complaint_hopeful]

Here is the BOG Agenda for the meeting tomorrow...along with the implementation plans:

04-28-2021 Agenda.pdf (passhe.edu)

[Fightingscot82]

I assume the NCAA will approve. As we've shared this is hardly the first case of one school operating multiple athletic departments. Something briefly mentioned in the Western Triad report that's worth mentioning - how will this be reflected in PSAC governance? Will Western Triad University get one vote or does each athletic department get a vote? If the latter, would Clarion be allowed to cast a vote different from the others?

[iupgroundhog]

My opinions:

1. This thing is getting rammed through. Willing to wager that the vote is unanimous. The citizens of PA have almost no power over these schools and almost no influence over their support.

And need I remind you that there has been no NCAA decision on it yet?

4. I don't believe Greenstein has some sort of agenda, but the charade of this plan appears to overshadow the actual cost savings. Its like a company saying that a new mission statement and branding changes the company culture. Things look and sound different but the savings are negligible - and at what cost? Will support wane when Lock Haven becomes Northeastern PA University? Schools can't be closed without legislative approval - but everything is on the table to be deemed unnecessary or cost-prohibitive. "Clarion University" may not be able to be closed but in theory "Western PA University" can decide to phase out its Clarion campus the same way Edinboro closed its outreach center in Millcreek.

Surprise, surprise, surprise. - Gomer Pyle

The report on the West Triad has significantly less data yet shows that there's actually very minimal cost savings when the plan is fully realized. WHAT THE ACTUAL F*CK?

Yep. It's an experiment. How's it feel to be a guinea pig?

5. None of this is successful unless the cost savings over Penn State & Pitt outlets and PA privates. Enrollment is virtually the same as ~year 2000 levels but with $200MM less state funding. That's a lot of friggin' money that is now shifted to students. Plus its not like the cost of doing business stayed the same over 20 years.

Out, out, brief candle! Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player, That struts and frets his hour upon the stage, And then is heard no more. It is a tale. Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing - William Shakespeare

[Fightingscot82]

I don't know if that's necessarily true. The case for support of public education has never been less welcomed. A lot of PA folks don't understand the basic math of why subsidized education is a common economic benefit. Its especially true for the future as our population dwindles and rural jobs continue to evaporate. But they'll continue to blame woes on brown-skinned immigrants and the myth of the black welfare state.