PASSHE Institutions Merging

[Fightingscot82]

Interesting results considering that Greenstein claims the only community against it is in Lock Haven. Of course, that's the community, implying both inside and outside the university.

If faculty is so overwhelmingly against it then why haven't we seen more resistance across the board?

I believe they've been distracted by fighting faculty cuts at places like IUP. I do believe they're bankrolling one of the online accounts fighting integrations. They've also got the Kutztown professor's Raging Chicken site.

[iupgroundhog]

70% of faculty surveyed are against integrations. Only 7% believe the process has been transparent. Not good.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/ed...s/202104070102

Interesting results considering that Greenstein claims the only community against it is in Lock Haven. Of course, that's the community, implying both inside and outside the university.

If faculty is so overwhelmingly against it then why haven't we seen more resistance across the board?

[Fightingscot82]

70% of faculty surveyed are against integrations. Only 7% believe the process has been transparent. Not good.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/ed...s/202104070102

[Fightingscot82]

I don't disagree. I'm referring more to the kids in 12th grade right now. Those are the kids deciding not to come to our schools in the volume they used to do so. As we keep saying, as the money gets closer, we'll continue to lose more and more of them to the more 'name' schools.

For $2k more they can attend a school with more cache or a bigger name. Plus little Kaitlyn from Blairsville could never afford to attend private school until college. BFE private liberal arts college is "throwing" money at her and IUP "only" offered $2,500. That perception of scholarship size works for a lot of people. You don't need to be a great student to qualify for automatic discounts marketed as "scholarships" from even the more elite private schools. You can be an average student (3.0, 1000 SAT) and get half off tuition at W&J, which is a top 100 liberal arts college. At IUP you might get $500 off for that application.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

[/I]

I agree with that -- to an extent.

I was referring more to the actual recruitment of students -- and the mindset of today's highly sought after kids. In the mind of an 18-year-old, most want the name. If the money is fairly close, often times they can convince Mom and Dad to pay the extra couple bucks. Twenty-some years ago I'd have much rather said I went to Pitt than IUP.

It has been my experience that the university name on the diploma doesn't make a lot of difference in decision-making for work assignments. I have been fortunate to work on programs valued at hundreds of $ millions and one in excess of $ billion. The leadership staff reporting to me had degrees from several Ivy League universities, Notre Dame, several PA universities, and institutions from all over the world. I can honestly say that my IUP and Army experiences presented me with tremendous opportunities to lead and develop others. I always have been pleased to see upcoming employees from PASSHE schools because they usually have an exceptional work ethic.[/QUOTE]

I don't disagree. I'm referring more to the kids in 12th grade right now. Those are the kids deciding not to come to our schools in the volume they used to do so. As we keep saying, as the money gets closer, we'll continue to lose more and more of them to the more 'name' schools.

[BADinPA]

People get in heated debates about the "quality" of the name on a diploma. But the reality is that unless you are talking about a truly name university (Ivy League, Stanford, Duke, and a couple of others) OR it is a "specialty" university (MIT for Engineers, University of Chicago for Law, etc), the name on the diploma really doesn't matter to hiring officials...They don't really care that an applicant got their degree from Indiana University of Pennsylvania or Indiana University Kokomo...they just care that he/she got a degree.

[/I]

I agree with that -- to an extent.

I was referring more to the actual recruitment of students -- and the mindset of today's highly sought after kids. In the mind of an 18-year-old, most want the name. If the money is fairly close, often times they can convince Mom and Dad to pay the extra couple bucks. Twenty-some years ago I'd have much rather said I went to Pitt than IUP.[/QUOTE]

It has been my experience that the university name on the diploma doesn't make a lot of difference in decision-making for work assignments. I have been fortunate to work on programs valued at hundreds of $ millions and one in excess of $ billion. The leadership staff reporting to me had degrees from several Ivy League universities, Notre Dame, several PA universities, and institutions from all over the world. I can honestly say that my IUP and Army experiences presented me with tremendous opportunities to lead and develop others. I always have been pleased to see upcoming employees from PASSHE schools because they usually have an exceptional work ethic.

[Fightingscot82]

Cost. The system markets itself on slogans and cliches. They don't sell themselves as the lowest base tuition in the state. And cost has crept up to the point that a good student can get a private school discount into the close enough range.

[IUPNation]

It's funny, though. At the time, I don't remember many people objecting to the IUP Housing "Revival." Sure, they complained about how the kids today need all these amenities. But I don't remember hearing that the project would price them out of the market or warnings about a dropoff in college-age population. I think a lot of people thought it would lure the kids to IUP.

It was basically dorm replacement. The old dorms were poorly designed and built.

[IUPNation]

NOW I remember who it was!!!!!

West Chester's enrollment increase didn't translate into a lot of new dorm space because the drop in birth rate that started west of the Susquehanna is making its way east. They did not overbuild housing like so many other PASSHE schools did.

Where can one find the academic ranking of the PSAC schools that you reference?

[Fightingscot82]

The state released a report that there's a 10-for-1 return on investment for PASSHE. That's pretty significant.

[Fightingscot82]

That's true, success in grad schools also shows that. ( IUP basketball fans will remember Joe Rocco - he's now Dr. Joe Rocco, working at NIH on infectuous diseases, he's been on local radio a few times) .

The other advantage of the privates is the ego trip the students get when they are offered a big scholarship. I have talked to people who were giving out IUP scholarships of 1-2 k, and getting the -well dusquesne has offered 10 k response. It didn't matter the costs of IUP overall would be much less, they only see the 10 k.

I saw a post in an Edinboro alumni group about a woman offended that Edinboro "only" offered her daughter $5,000 a year in scholarships but another school offered her $50,000. I tried explaining that Edinboro was awarding her someone's donated money but that private school was just giving her a coupon code. She wasn't having it. Sure, a full scholarship is a big deal (and I generally tell people to attend where its cheapest) but its not like Edinboro has a whole lot of full academic scholarships to hand out.

[ironmaniup]

People get in heated debates about the "quality" of the name on a diploma. But the reality is that unless you are talking about a truly name university (Ivy League, Stanford, Duke, and a couple of others) OR it is a "specialty" university (MIT for Engineers, University of Chicago for Law, etc), the name on the diploma really doesn't matter to hiring officials...They don't really care that an applicant got their degree from Indiana University of Pennsylvania or Indiana University Kokomo...they just care that he/she got a degree.

Absolutely. Gallup research suggests that if a student is fully engaged (relationships with professors, involved, participates in study abroad or internships) it doesn't matter where they attend to have a fulfilling career.

My kids preschool made a big deal out of the new director having graduated from Duke. Every damn week the newsletter is full of errors and poor grammar. But she's from Grosse Point, MI so I guess that's how she got into Duke.[/QUOTE]

That's true, success in grad schools also shows that. ( IUP basketball fans will remember Joe Rocco - he's now Dr. Joe Rocco, working at NIH on infectuous diseases, he's been on local radio a few times) .

The other advantage of the privates is the ego trip the students get when they are offered a big scholarship. I have talked to people who were giving out IUP scholarships of 1-2 k, and getting the -well dusquesne has offered 10 k response. It didn't matter the costs of IUP overall would be much less, they only see the 10 k.

[Fightingscot82]

Thank you for compiling. I get few pay full retail. When you start to see the average net numbers ... few bucks more you can get a better name/brand.

People get in heated debates about the "quality" of the name on a diploma. But the reality is that unless you are talking about a truly name university (Ivy League, Stanford, Duke, and a couple of others) OR it is a "specialty" university (MIT for Engineers, University of Chicago for Law, etc), the name on the diploma really doesn't matter to hiring officials...They don't really care that an applicant got their degree from Indiana University of Pennsylvania or Indiana University Kokomo...they just care that he/she got a degree.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely. Gallup research suggests that if a student is fully engaged (relationships with professors, involved, participates in study abroad or internships) it doesn't matter where they attend to have a fulfilling career.

My kids preschool made a big deal out of the new director having graduated from Duke. Every damn week the newsletter is full of errors and poor grammar. But she's from Grosse Point, MI so I guess that's how she got into Duke.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

At a private school, full payers are those who have below average academics and don't mind paying sticker price either because they are wealthy or ignorant enough to borrow. That number borrowing full freight is staggering. At RMU, they take a ton of kids who aren't academically prepared for college so they don't qualify for even basic discounting and since they're largely lower income families the students are borrowing $40k a year. I was reprimanded by my VP because a kid I was speaking with from Wampum was $90k in debt after 2 years for psychology so I recommended he look into transferring to Slippery Rock as a commuter student. What good was that kid going to be to RMU with $180k in loan debt on degree that generally requires graduate school? I also worked with a kid from a wealthy Long Island community paying full freight; once his dream of walking on to the lacrosse team dried up he went into party mode and wasted mom & dad's money.

Well, the VP in your case wants that coin. I think in most cases -- even the Ivy Leagues, etc., -- anybody can get it. Mom and Dad are going to pay retail and donate a real big check, but, follow the money. It talks.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Thank you for compiling. I get few pay full retail. When you start to see the average net numbers ... few bucks more you can get a better name/brand.

People get in heated debates about the "quality" of the name on a diploma. But the reality is that unless you are talking about a truly name university (Ivy League, Stanford, Duke, and a couple of others) OR it is a "specialty" university (MIT for Engineers, University of Chicago for Law, etc), the name on the diploma really doesn't matter to hiring officials...They don't really care that an applicant got their degree from Indiana University of Pennsylvania or Indiana University Kokomo...they just care that he/she got a degree.[/QUOTE]

I agree with that -- to an extent.

I was referring more to the actual recruitment of students -- and the mindset of today's highly sought after kids. In the mind of an 18-year-old, most want the name. If the money is fairly close, often times they can convince Mom and Dad to pay the extra couple bucks. Twenty-some years ago I'd have much rather said I went to Pitt than IUP.