PASSHE Institutions Merging

[Fightingscot82]

Was it Slippery Rock who backed out of the western triad? The whole things is more like Dr. Frankenstein creating the monster, than the Brady Bunch.

Yes. The original decision was based on geography less than potential collaboration/complimenting programs. They successfully argued that their academic programs don't align with Edinboro and Clarion, which I agree with. SRU has invested heavily in engineering and health professions. Edinboro, Clarion, and Cal overlap much more.

[Fightingscot82]

I still believe just about all aspects of the plan can be realized without making it into 1 school (which it already is, I know). Ideally, a looser alliance with more independence would have worked better for the NE. In general, Bloom feels they are giving up too much. LHU feels they are getting run over, and Mansfield just wants to be. Greenstein didn't listen nearly enough to the various constituencies in the NE.

I think Greenstein concocted an idea in his head without doing any of the backend work before proposing it. It makes for good podcast and conference keynote fodder. There's a lot of that in higher ed - look at what we've done (even though it hasn't fully run its course yet). The savings are so negligible if any. The administrative cost savings are eaten up in the first year just from the branding work - and before they have to change logos everywhere on campus.

[Ship69]

I don't disagree with that, but that CLEARLY is not how the PASSHE is playing it! Imagine a PASSHE with the same budget but only seven (or so) schools? Much more stable and devoid of excess capacity (which I think really is the crux of the problem). If the schools that didn't make the cut want to try and make a go of it as private schools, sell them the assets at fire sale prices and be done with them.

Dwindling support from the state will probably get them close to a private school anyway. I live in a state that would rather subsidize thoroughbred racehorses than offer more scholarship money for its state university students.

[iupgroundhog]

Was it Slippery Rock who backed out of the western triad?.

Yes.

[Bart]

The Greenstein mantra seems to be "Good for three, not just for thee." The hope is that the sum will be better than the parts but to truly test that theory, all three members have to provide fully to the common good. Won't work if one of the schools says I AM THE BIG DOGS AND YOU WILL ONLY GET THE SCRAPS THAT FALL OFF MY TABLE!

I wonder beyond sqaking and screaming about how unfair it is, how much "control" a PASSHE school has in participating or not participating in the triads? I mean, can a school really say, thanks but hard NO if Greenstein and the PASSHE BOG askes them to participate?

Was it Slippery Rock who backed out of the western triad? The whole things is more like Dr. Frankenstein creating the monster, than the Brady Bunch.

[boatcapt]

I still believe just about all aspects of the plan can be realized without making it into 1 school (which it already is, I know). Ideally, a looser alliance with more independence would have worked better for the NE. In general, Bloom feels they are giving up too much. LHU feels they are getting run over, and Mansfield just wants to be. Greenstein didn't listen nearly enough to the various constituencies in the NE.

The Greenstein mantra seems to be "Good for three, not just for thee." The hope is that the sum will be better than the parts but to truly test that theory, all three members have to provide fully to the common good. Won't work if one of the schools says I AM THE BIG DOGS AND YOU WILL ONLY GET THE SCRAPS THAT FALL OFF MY TABLE!

I wonder beyond sqaking and screaming about how unfair it is, how much "control" a PASSHE school has in participating or not participating in the triads? I mean, can a school really say, thanks but hard NO if Greenstein and the PASSHE BOG askes them to participate?

[iupgroundhog]

I don't disagree with that, but that CLEARLY is not how the PASSHE is playing it! Imagine a PASSHE with the same budget but only seven (or so) schools? Much more stable and devoid of excess capacity (which I think really is the crux of the problem). If the schools that didn't make the cut want to try and make a go of it as private schools, sell them the assets at fire sale prices and be done with them.

We have bandied that idea around quite a bit. Frankly, I am not sure how those ~7 or so schools would fare moving into the future. Plus, by cutting out 7 of them there is a tremendous loss in so many ways. No point in going into specifics about that.

[iupgroundhog]

I still believe just about all aspects of the plan can be realized without making it into 1 school (which it already is, I know). Ideally, a looser alliance with more independence would have worked better for the NE. In general, Bloom feels they are giving up too much. LHU feels they are getting run over, and Mansfield just wants to be. Greenstein didn't listen nearly enough to the various constituencies in the NE.

[boatcapt]

The goal should be to keep schools open that attract students, some version of a free market system. Let each school sink or swim.

I don't disagree with that, but that CLEARLY is not how the PASSHE is playing it! Imagine a PASSHE with the same budget but only seven (or so) schools? Much more stable and devoid of excess capacity (which I think really is the crux of the problem). If the schools that didn't make the cut want to try and make a go of it as private schools, sell them the assets at fire sale prices and be done with them.

[Bart]

Because that's working out so well?? If the goal is to keep all schools open, that isn't going to get you there!

The goal should be to keep schools open that attract students, some version of a free market system. Let each school sink or swim.

[boatcapt]

The status quo. Just leave them alone.

Because that's working out so well?? If the goal is to keep all schools open, that isn't going to get you there!

[Bart]

To be replaced byyyyyy???

The status quo. Just leave them alone.

[Fightingscot82]

That was Greenstein's objective, but everyone does their own cost benefit analysis. If someone can throw a wrench into this whole process, I applaud them.

Just to clarify, Greenstein's plan wasn't for one school to take over others. I guess you could call it that but his initial comments were on the creation of a new school in each case. What he didn't realize is just how difficulty it is to get accreditation as a new school or overcome the PA policy language regarding PASSHE (like trustees makeup).

What the NE group needs to remember is that they don't have any real ownership of their school. Students wanted a say. Alumni wanted a say. Trustees wanted a say. Faculty wanted a say. None have any tangible ownership of Bloomsburg, Lock Haven, or Mansfield. The state government owns the three schools and has 100% of the say. Sure the plan sucks, but eventually the NE group is going to spend too much time throwing tantrums and be behind on getting the plan in place. Its happening. Its like as if the kids tried preventing the Brady Bunch from happening. "Shut up kids, meet your new sisters/brothers."

[boatcapt]

That was Greenstein's objective, but everyone does their own cost benefit analysis. If someone can throw a wrench into this whole process, I applaud them.

To be replaced byyyyyy???

[boatcapt]

He has the numbers in students and alumni. Biden got elected president, which made some people unhappy. Majority wins, democracy prevails.

Think of the integration as rebranding, like Dunkin' Donuts becoming Dunkin. Now Bloomsburg becomes the Bloom Triad. I don't see it happening, so turn off the war news before you see your neighbor as an enemy for wearing a Bloomsburg hoodie.

Who ever called the PASSHE a democracy????