PASSHE Institutions Merging

[boatcapt]

Sources: Sticker prices are for Fall 2021 freshmen from the university websites. Average net price (average student cost after grants but before loans) comes from government reporting and considers need-based aid like Pell and PHEAA grants as well as athletic aid. Again, its an average.

Thank you for compiling. I get few pay full retail. When you start to see the average net numbers ... few bucks more you can get a better name/brand. [/QUOTE]

People get in heated debates about the "quality" of the name on a diploma. But the reality is that unless you are talking about a truly name university (Ivy League, Stanford, Duke, and a couple of others) OR it is a "specialty" university (MIT for Engineers, University of Chicago for Law, etc), the name on the diploma really doesn't matter to hiring officials...They don't really care that an applicant got their degree from Indiana University of Pennsylvania or Indiana University Kokomo...they just care that he/she got a degree.

[Fightingscot82]

Thank you for compiling. I get few pay full retail. When you start to see the average net numbers ... few bucks more you can get a better name/brand.

At a private school, full payers are those who have below average academics and don't mind paying sticker price either because they are wealthy or ignorant enough to borrow. That number borrowing full freight is staggering. At RMU, they take a ton of kids who aren't academically prepared for college so they don't qualify for even basic discounting and since they're largely lower income families the students are borrowing $40k a year. I was reprimanded by my VP because a kid I was speaking with from Wampum was $90k in debt after 2 years for psychology so I recommended he look into transferring to Slippery Rock as a commuter student. What good was that kid going to be to RMU with $180k in loan debt on degree that generally requires graduate school? I also worked with a kid from a wealthy Long Island community paying full freight; once his dream of walking on to the lacrosse team dried up he went into party mode and wasted mom & dad's money.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Sources: Sticker prices are for Fall 2021 freshmen from the university websites. Average net price (average student cost after grants but before loans) comes from government reporting and considers need-based aid like Pell and PHEAA grants as well as athletic aid. Again, its an average.[/QUOTE]



Thank you for compiling. I get few pay full retail. When you start to see the average net numbers ... few bucks more you can get a better name/brand.

[Fightingscot82]

Curious what a year, assuming retail price, costs at these schools (ballpark):

IUP
Pitt and Duquesne
West Virginia
BFE Pitt branch
BFE PSU branch
Washington and Jefferson
Gannon & Mercyhurst
Bobby Mo

State-funded schools use PA resident tuition rates, except WVU. Pitt BFE Branch = Johnstown. PSU BFE Branch = Behrend.

School	Sticker	Avg. Net
IUP	$25,005	$20,944
Pitt	$33,710	$22,600
Duquesne	$59,922	$30,732
WVU	$36,222	$25,320
BFE Pitt Branch	$26,112	$18,836
BFE PSU Branch	$29,374	$20,315
Washington & Jefferson	$63,220	$26,787
Gannon	$49,151	$22,009
Mercyhurst	$54,575	$23,605
Bobby Mo	$49,364	$26,682

Sources: Sticker prices are for Fall 2021 freshmen from the university websites. Average net price (average student cost after grants but before loans) comes from government reporting and considers need-based aid like Pell and PHEAA grants as well as athletic aid. Again, its an average.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Curious what a year, assuming retail price, costs at these schools (ballpark):

IUP
Pitt and Duquesne
West Virginia
BFE Pitt branch
BFE PSU branch
Washington and Jefferson
Gannon & Mercyhurst
Bobby Mo

[boatcapt]

It's funny, though. At the time, I don't remember many people objecting to the IUP Housing "Revival." Sure, they complained about how the kids today need all these amenities. But I don't remember hearing that the project would price them out of the market or warnings about a dropoff in college-age population. I think a lot of people thought it would lure the kids to IUP.

I recall some supporters of various schools talking about housing construction and renovations and how they were going to be able to compete "with the best" because their student "creature comforts" were soooo very, very nice (new dorms with AC, hot and cold running campus wide free wifi, multiple dining options at name brand on-campus resturants, on-campus concerts by "name" performers, etc).

[complaint_hopeful]

Yep. 10 years ago, the thought process of most schools was to beautify campuses with amenities for kids.

[Bart]

It's funny, though. At the time, I don't remember many people objecting to the IUP Housing "Revival." Sure, they complained about how the kids today need all these amenities. But I don't remember hearing that the project would price them out of the market or warnings about a dropoff in college-age population. I think a lot of people thought it would lure the kids to IUP.

I guess everyone who can read tea leaves are in West Chester, and the rest are now suffering future shock.

[iupgroundhog]

It seems building residence halls was a bad idea when West Chester has about 36% of student living on campus, and IUP only 32%. The issue may be whether they are filled to capacity. Bloom built several campus housing options during the last decade in the neighborhood of $200 million. They have 42.3% of students living on campus and are at less then 80% capacity. Now they are going to be part of the loneliest number since the number 1.

It's funny, though. At the time, I don't remember many people objecting to the IUP Housing "Revival." Sure, they complained about how the kids today need all these amenities. But I don't remember hearing that the project would price them out of the market or warnings about a dropoff in college-age population. I think a lot of people thought it would lure the kids to IUP.

[Bart]

NOW I remember who it was!!!!!

West Chester's enrollment increase didn't translate into a lot of new dorm space because the drop in birth rate that started west of the Susquehanna is making its way east. They did not overbuild housing like so many other PASSHE schools did.

Where can one find the academic ranking of the PSAC schools that you reference?

It seems building residence halls was a bad idea when West Chester has about 36% of student living on campus, and IUP only 32%. The issue may be whether they are filled to capacity. Bloom built several campus housing options during the last decade in the neighborhood of $200 million. They have 42.3% of students living on campus and are at less then 80% capacity. Now they are going to be part of the loneliest number since the number 1.

[Horror Child]

top three Pee Sack schools academically

NOW I remember who it was!!!!!

West Chester's enrollment increase didn't translate into a lot of new dorm space because the drop in birth rate that started west of the Susquehanna is making its way east. They did not overbuild housing like so many other PASSHE schools did.

Where can one find the academic ranking of the PSAC schools that you reference?

[Fightingscot82]

That's my take. He was just trying to say that if we don't change the path we're on...it's going to fail and we'll need to disband. More context is he has been doing townhalls where people ask him questions and he gave off-the-cuff answers. His answer was totally politicized.

I was listening to a Podcast from Raging Chicken and he spoke at I believe Kutztown and he made a comment about 'fail fast' and then modify. He's trying to use like Gates Foundation and Silicon Valley strategies. But, some people hear 'fail fast' and think that means this whole thing will fail.

Frankly, I like that someone is trying new strategies. This thing has been limping along too long. That said, I just don't know that the Universities are capable of changing this drastically. And it may be too late financially.

Raging Chicken is a Kutztown professor so everything on there is viewed through that lens.

[complaint_hopeful]

I don't think he self-destructed. I think his hyperbole was taken out of context so they could use it against him. He's right - if they don't find some radical solutions the financially solvent schools will drain their savings covering for the failing schools. I'm not defending him - I think it was more of a gaffe that's being politicized for one group's gain.

That's my take. He was just trying to say that if we don't change the path we're on...it's going to fail and we'll need to disband. More context is he has been doing townhalls where people ask him questions and he gave off-the-cuff answers. His answer was totally politicized.

I was listening to a Podcast from Raging Chicken and he spoke at I believe Kutztown and he made a comment about 'fail fast' and then modify. He's trying to use like Gates Foundation and Silicon Valley strategies. But, some people hear 'fail fast' and think that means this whole thing will fail.

Frankly, I like that someone is trying new strategies. This thing has been limping along too long. That said, I just don't know that the Universities are capable of changing this drastically. And it may be too late financially.

[complaint_hopeful]

Sure does.

Where I believe the faculty union and others are wrong is thinking that if they force his resignation that this plan will go away. The chancellor answers to the system board of governors - if they were against this plan they would have put the kibosh on it months ago. With the chancellor gone the system stays the course without a top leader. Nothing changes. Its a wasted effort but that union has never seen a labor vs. management fight they didn't like.

The real villain is the state legislature's hands-off oversight and unwillingness to prioritize funding for state-owned universities. Or even failure to gain the knowledge on the benefits of a well-educated population.

For naming, I don't see a problem with directional names. They're the least offensive and the least likely to be rejected by the public.

I've been saying that too..the real issue is the state funding.

But yeah...if the Integrations don't happen...schools will likely start to fail financially. If the Integrations do happen, they have somewhat of a better chance to survive.

He's also right that you can't cut your way out of this. Some of these schools have been cutting costs for 7-8 years. Gotta grow. But that will be very difficult.

IF the Chancellor were to leave, the Integration goes forward but without leadership.

The Faculty Unions love to fight, but they have no leverage. That's essentially what I took Greenstein's disband the system comments to mean. Without Integrations, some schools fail for sure.

[Fightingscot82]

All true but to self-destruct like he did in response to the resistance was a very bad thing. Inherent to his role is to be able to balance all the factions and I think he kind of lost it. That kind of thing just doesn't blow over in this environment.

As for names, I agree. Directional names followed by the town make sense. Also, just because there is a tiny school in NEPA called Keystone doesn't mean the PASSHE can't use the word Keystone in their name. It would be clearly a distinct entity. Keystone is a good word to consider.

I don't think he self-destructed. I think his hyperbole was taken out of context so they could use it against him. He's right - if they don't find some radical solutions the financially solvent schools will drain their savings covering for the failing schools. I'm not defending him - I think it was more of a gaffe that's being politicized for one group's gain.