PASSHE Institutions Merging

[IUPNation]

Agree with you all around. I always compare Penn State's appropriation as giving your live-out kid an allowance. They aren't subject to open records oversight beyond their ten or so highest paid employees and average salaries for certain classifications. Everything but HR records and FERPA/HIPAA records at PASSHE is subject to FOIA - plus money is subject to state rules.

I think on a grand scale, the Pitt and Penn State branches haven't caused a system-wide enrollment issue but like you illustrate on a local scale for some schools. Behrend exploded over the last 20 years and it certainly hurt Edinboro. In the 90s, Penn State Altoona was thriving and probably hurt several schools. Pitt Bradford has expanded quite a bit and I know for certain that its viewed as more accessible than Clarion or Edinboro for those living in that region.

FWIW, I sat in on someone's interview this week. The candidate mentioned that they attended Penn State for undergrad. Upon further inspection, they attended Penn State DuBois for four years.

[cwfenn]

Agree with you all around. I always compare Penn State's appropriation as giving your live-out kid an allowance. They aren't subject to open records oversight beyond their ten or so highest paid employees and average salaries for certain classifications. Everything but HR records and FERPA/HIPAA records at PASSHE is subject to FOIA - plus money is subject to state rules.

I think on a grand scale, the Pitt and Penn State branches haven't caused a system-wide enrollment issue but like you illustrate on a local scale for some schools. Behrend exploded over the last 20 years and it certainly hurt Edinboro. In the 90s, Penn State Altoona was thriving and probably hurt several schools. Pitt Bradford has expanded quite a bit and I know for certain that its viewed as more accessible than Clarion or Edinboro for those living in that region.

FWIW, I sat in on someone's interview this week. The candidate mentioned that they attended Penn State for undergrad. Upon further inspection, they attended Penn State DuBois for four years.

[Sec10-A-14]

Some odd facts Penn State Erie has 5,000+ students surpassing Edinboro 4,043.
Recall boro had @8,200+ at one time
Gannon had 11% growth last year to 4,705.
Mercyhurst down to 2,704
All numbers from 2021 fall enrollment.

[Fightingscot82]

PSU clearly has a lot of bargaining power relative to PASSHE when it comes to PA's budget. I mean, our universities are OWNED by the state, for chrissake. One would think that legislators would appreciate that.

However, looking at their enrollment numbers I don't think the PSU branch campuses are cannibalizing PASSHE that much. I do think that the Harrisburg campus has had a detrimental impact on Shippensburg, though.

I also think this budget is make or break for Greenstein. If the legislature doesn't buy into it, I think he will leave. I don't know if that would be a bad thing.

Agree with you all around. I always compare Penn State's appropriation as giving your live-out kid an allowance. They aren't subject to open records oversight beyond their ten or so highest paid employees and average salaries for certain classifications. Everything but HR records and FERPA/HIPAA records at PASSHE is subject to FOIA - plus money is subject to state rules.

I think on a grand scale, the Pitt and Penn State branches haven't caused a system-wide enrollment issue but like you illustrate on a local scale for some schools. Behrend exploded over the last 20 years and it certainly hurt Edinboro. In the 90s, Penn State Altoona was thriving and probably hurt several schools. Pitt Bradford has expanded quite a bit and I know for certain that its viewed as more accessible than Clarion or Edinboro for those living in that region.

FWIW, I sat in on someone's interview this week. The candidate mentioned that they attended Penn State for undergrad. Upon further inspection, they attended Penn State DuBois for four years.

[iupgroundhog]

I love how all the PASSHE articles depict the drop in student enrollment as a disgrace but when they speak of the drop of student enrollment at PSU is mirroring national trends.......you can not ever convince me that this is not done by design.

https://www.abc27.com/pennsylvania/p...ional-funding/

https://triblive.com/news/pennsylvan...tional-trends/

PSU clearly has a lot of bargaining power relative to PASSHE when it comes to PA's budget. I mean, our universities are OWNED by the state, for chrissake. One would think that legislators would appreciate that.

However, looking at their enrollment numbers I don't think the PSU branch campuses are cannibalizing PASSHE that much. I do think that the Harrisburg campus has had a detrimental impact on Shippensburg, though.

I also think this budget is make or break for Greenstein. If the legislature doesn't buy into it, I think he will leave. I don't know if that would be a bad thing.

[only1]

I love how all the PASSHE articles depict the drop in student enrollment as a disgrace but when they speak of the drop of student enrollment at PSU is mirroring national trends.......you can not ever convince me that this is not done by design.

https://www.abc27.com/pennsylvania/p...ional-funding/

https://triblive.com/news/pennsylvan...tional-trends/

[Fightingscot82]

One would think that a legislature governed in the majority by a competent party...would have thought to do this first before merging schools...see how it plays out.

However, we don't gave one of those in the majority in Harrisburg.

The legislature wants nothing to do with PASSHE. Their only real concern is the budget impact. In fact, there's a bill in the PA legislature to allow legislators to send proxies to PASSHE meetings.

[IUPNation]

New allocation formula favors schools that serve students from household incomes under $75k. This hurts West Chester and schools who are investing in applied health and engineering. Helps the most rural plus Cheyney.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/ed...s/202206150085

One would think that a legislature governed in the majority by a competent party...would have thought to do this first before merging schools...see how it plays out.

However, we don't gave one of those in the majority in Harrisburg.

[iupgroundhog]

Those majors tend to enroll students from higher family incomes.

I think the proposal would also be in line with the emphasis on job training. We tend to think of HH income under $75k as low-income 18-year-olds from cities or rural areas. However, if you think of a non-traditional student who is unemployed or underemployed, they also qualify. For somebody who is 34 and a candidate for a job training-type program it would facilitate their matriculation. and subsequently enable them to stay in the state, pay taxes, etc.

[only1]

Just another article......
https://www.abc27.com/pennsylvania/p...ional-funding/

[Fightingscot82]

That is true but it's kind of unclear how it would all work out. It sounds like it could move some people from community colleges to PASSHE schools. At face value, it would help IUP.

Of course, right now it's all hypothetical contingent upon the legislature approving it.

Why would it hurt the schools with applied health and engineering programs?

Those majors tend to enroll students from higher family incomes.

[iupgroundhog]

New allocation formula favors schools that serve students from household incomes under $75k. This hurts West Chester and schools who are investing in applied health and engineering. Helps the most rural plus Cheyney.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/ed...s/202206150085

That is true but it's kind of unclear how it would all work out. It sounds like it could move some people from community colleges to PASSHE schools. At face value, it would help IUP.

Of course, right now it's all hypothetical contingent upon the legislature approving it.

Why would it hurt the schools with applied health and engineering programs?

[Fightingscot82]

New allocation formula favors schools that serve students from household incomes under $75k. This hurts West Chester and schools who are investing in applied health and engineering. Helps the most rural plus Cheyney.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/ed...s/202206150085

[only1]

I agree and see these things happening with many ordinary PASSHE students. In complete disclosure, I have 1 kid that graduated from a PASSHE school and had a job before graduating with a Big 4 firm as an analyst and is using her PASSHE education the same as the others from more famous schools(not better) at her firm. Another kid will enter their junior year and is very ambitious(She has changed her major three times though). Decided to major in Business Admin with a minor and Analytics. I think her future will include opportunities based on what effort she puts into her education.

I honestly made both kids cry when they were HS Juniors as we explained that the amount of money for college was limited and these (PASSHE, Kent, Cleveland State, Youngstown) are your choices. They said I was a dream crusher. Graduate with a little debt as possible and there are ways. The kid that is a Junior is taking summer courses online at CCAC to catch up with two pre-requisites to save money. Both are now happy with their decisions and both agreed that it doesn't matter where you go as long as the program is accredited and you put work into it. Sorry if it sounds like a bit of a "high horse syndrome" but I am just tired of the bashing of the system as it should be highlighted in a positive manner as it is a nonfancy way to a quality education if you just explore the options.

Just want to celebrate what PASSHE is not what it isn't.

[iupgroundhog]

Even when we were normal schools, we had success stories like Nelly Bly and Joseph Pew (founded Sunoco & endowed Pew Research).

...and Art Rooney.