PASSHE Institutions Merging

[iupgroundhog]

Good NYT article. Covers a lot of ground. Greenstein mentioned.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/co...?ocid=msedgntp

[Fightingscot82]

I agree that it's sports-heavy but he might just be reinforcing his point. I am both an academic person and a sports person so I get it, I think.

When asked about implications for athletics and whether he has consulted the NCAA Greenstein couldn't answer. I kind of think that is unacceptable.

If you take away the football misery, LHU is a sports school and LH is a sports town. Taking that away is a real hit to the local culture.

No other PSAC school has racked up as many NCAA championships across different men's and women's sports as LHU. I know Bloom has accumulated a lot of Field Hockey championships in D2 but that is only since LHU moved up to D1 in FH. The Haven program was always ahead of Bloom.

As the letter writer mentioned, 20% of LHU's student population are NCAA athletes. No other PSAC school comes close to that.

Of course, the wrestling is well-known. The writer mentions the cross-country course which LHU even allows PSU to use for meets. The legacy of women's sports. Even on the club level the Boxing Club is one of the top intercollegiate programs and brings in the service academies and others for meets. Ship also comes for that so maybe you are aware of it.

So, I think answers need to be given related to sports upfront.

All great evidence for keeping athletics largely intact at all schools.

It's not Greenstein's place to contact the NCAA. The individual schools but not a state bureaucrat. If it's one school with one administration/faculty/accreditation then it's up to the one school.

There is precedence for one school with multiple campuses competing at the same level. Southern Illinois does this at the D1 level although they belong to different conferences. Fairleigh Dickinson has two campuses with different classifications similar to what LIU did.

[iupgroundhog]

Perhaps a little heavy on the athletics end of it. As much as we care about our sports, the school is there for education first.

But I think the letter makes great points otherwise.

I've been knocked in the past for what others call a "what about the waitresses?" outlook. But a drop in LHU's status would have an adverse effect on the entire community. Same for any college town facing merger.

I'd go as far as to say that the state needs to account for leaking money on its schools, and accept it as the cost of doing business in higher education.

I agree that it's sports-heavy but he might just be reinforcing his point. I am both an academic person and a sports person so I get it, I think.

When asked about implications for athletics and whether he has consulted the NCAA Greenstein couldn't answer. I kind of think that is unacceptable.

If you take away the football misery, LHU is a sports school and LH is a sports town. Taking that away is a real hit to the local culture.

No other PSAC school has racked up as many NCAA championships across different men's and women's sports as LHU. I know Bloom has accumulated a lot of Field Hockey championships in D2 but that is only since LHU moved up to D1 in FH. The Haven program was always ahead of Bloom.

As the letter writer mentioned, 20% of LHU's student population are NCAA athletes. No other PSAC school comes close to that.

Of course, the wrestling is well-known. The writer mentions the cross-country course which LHU even allows PSU to use for meets. The legacy of women's sports. Even on the club level the Boxing Club is one of the top intercollegiate programs and brings in the service academies and others for meets. Ship also comes for that so maybe you are aware of it.

So, I think answers need to be given related to sports upfront.

[iupgroundhog]

There is no plan because the two triads will be different from the other.

I think there has to be a plan.

The reason being is that the cat has been let out of the bag and it's not just about making the schools and the system economically viable. It's about public perceptions, the viability of the communities, and the culture of the communities.

I think there are a lot of roadblocks ahead.

[Fightingscot82]

There is no plan because the two triads will be different from the other. My concern is that there's not a best practice out there to follow or inspire and no clear framework for our needs. Texas consolidated campuses to create a larger D1 school. It worked because that's what students wanted. That's not the plan here. Georgia paired strong schools with struggling schools and community colleges. It hasn't worked. The savings have been minimal, especially in Savannah where the Georgia Southern & Armstrong State merger has resulted in a 20% enrollment decline. We also don't know how prospective students will react. This should scare us because above all the decrease in enrollment is driving this.

I don't think that big athletics cuts will come. It's short sighted because our costs are low and drive enrollment. Cutting LH football makes the triad lose 100+ students. This is why Mansfield didn't cut football outright. I bet we'll see coaching staff reductions. I've heard rumors of a ratio for FT coaches such as one for every 30 participants.

FWIW, only the legislature can close a PASSHE school, and we know that's very unlikely. The system board can merge and consolidate but they can't close.

[jrshooter]

You can take the college out of the Mat-Town but you can't take the Mat-Town out of the college.

Perhaps a little heavy on the athletics end of it. As much as we care about our sports, the school is there for education first.

But I think the letter makes great points otherwise.

I've been knocked in the past for what others call a "what about the waitresses?" outlook. But a drop in LHU's status would have an adverse effect on the entire community. Same for any college town facing merger.

I'd go as far as to say that the state needs to account for leaking money on its schools, and accept it as the cost of doing business in higher education.

[iupgroundhog]

I would bet that the Chancellor doesn't have a detailed vision for the merged schools, instead, I think this a step toward closing some of the schools, and reducing costs of the admin functions. He will throw it back at the faculty at the merged schools, and talk about innovation, and meeting new challenges, etc. No one knows how the student recruitment will go post covid/ post merger. And how will faculty really perform given the new situation. Some are being retrenched, the best ones will find jobs at more successful universities, the rest will phone it in until retirement.
There will be a group that tries to take a positive view, and make something happen. But it will get more futile at the smaller universities.

It's not a strategy.

You are right that he might not have a detailed vision for the merged schools. And that's not a good thing. If he does have a detailed vision he needs to lay it out for the schools and the public.

You can't implement these initial steps that will likely cripple some of the schools and then say 'See, these schools aren't viable. so we have to take further steps.' He needs to lay out a long-term plan or this isn't going to work and everybody will lose.

However, there are things that are implied. It's plain to see that the Northcentral plan will have the effect of reducing LHU to a Bloom outpost. Given the current size of the school when you gut it according to the existing plan it will lead to a downward spiral. So. LHU won't survive under Greenstein's plan. That is a significant thing.

Nor is the Western PA plan strategic. A regional strategy would encompass all of the regional resources, i.e. inclusive of SRU and IUP It doesn't seem to go anywhere by combining the 3 most struggling schools into one. I think geography plays a role and throwing Cal into the mix with Clarion and Edinboro makes little sense.

Greenstein's original plan didn't freak everybody out. But what appears happened is that SRU pressured him and was able to get out of the merger talks. That should not have happened. Additionally, IUP is now at about 65% capacity. IMO. that should be addressed by combining IUP and Cal.

[ironmaniup]

I doubt that they do away with every sport at a school. It seems when people argue things they tend to take extremes.

The author does have an interesting point about the sustainability plans making integrations not necessary. I do think that the sustainability plans probably call for layoffs.

The big issue that they point out is the Chancellor can give no details on what the end product will look like. That leads to any and all speculation.

I would bet that the Chancellor doesn't have a detailed vision for the merged schools, instead, I think this a step toward closing some of the schools, and reducing costs of the admin functions. He will throw it back at the faculty at the merged schools, and talk about innovation, and meeting new challenges, etc. No one knows how the student recruitment will go post covid/ post merger. And how will faculty really perform given the new situation. Some are being retrenched, the best ones will find jobs at more successful universities, the rest will phone it in until retirement.
There will be a group that tries to take a positive view, and make something happen. But it will get more futile at the smaller universities.

I agree the changes over the next few years will not generally be as extreme as some people say. But 5 to 10 years down the road, when this all shakes out, and the Chancellor has moved on, it will be a very much smaller state system. , with a lot fewer trappings of traditional universities - PSU and Pitt will be enough for that. PASSHE will be for future teachers, healthcare workers, and bureaucrats.

[complaint_hopeful]

I doubt that they do away with every sport at a school. It seems when people argue things they tend to take extremes.

The author does have an interesting point about the sustainability plans making integrations not necessary. I do think that the sustainability plans probably call for layoffs.

The big issue that they point out is the Chancellor can give no details on what the end product will look like. That leads to any and all speculation.

[iupgroundhog]

I

https://www.lockhaven.com/opinion/le...ersity-merger/

You can take the college out of the Mat-Town but you can't take the Mat-Town out of the college.

[Bart]

Ihttps://www.lockhaven.com/opinion/le...ersity-merger/

[IUPbigINDIANS]

It will be interesting to see if they look at reducing the number of programs at some of these schools and moving them down to D3.

Several of them, for all intents and purposes, already are on the field.

[Fightingscot82]

It will be interesting to see if they look at reducing the number of programs at some of these schools and moving them down to D3.

I don't know how much savings can be had by dropping to D3 since all athletic scholarship money is private money. Coaches tend to make less at D3 but they're not going to dock a coach's pay just because they bumped down. Travel costs are already pretty low in the PSAC.

Programs are being looked at for ROI the same way they're evaluating academic majors. The only difference is how it affects enrollment. Eliminated majors do a teach out: current students finish and the school stops accepting new students so it goes away over time. In sports the players almost always leave right away. Assuming most players enrollment is contingent on playing their sport, most PSAC programs can be "profitable."

[complaint_hopeful]

It will be interesting to see if they look at reducing the number of programs at some of these schools and moving them down to D3.

[complaint_hopeful]

The problem is, if this were a business the cuts would be targeted at the dead weight, and the highest salaries. Faculty are unusual in that these two groups are protected. like someone said, senior faculty are about twice the cost, to service the same number of students. Some senior faculty are worth the extra money, some are definitely not. In fact some junior faculty are likely to be bigger contributors, as they still can earn promotion, and just have more energy and better rapport with the students.

The other thing to keep in mind, you can cut a small program, but the faculty are still needed to teach gen ed classes, like History for instance. Lots of majors take history classes, so the small history major is like a loss leader that gives you better history classes and doesn't cost you much.

It's a broken system in a lot of ways.

The Gen Ed point is interesting. Seems those will be the exact type of classes that they look to share among schools...and those would be perfect candidates to go online exclusively. No labs associated with history. That would enable them to get rid of some faculty right there.

Not saying this will happen, but it could.