Originally posted by ironmaniup
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PASSHE Institutions Merging
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Originally posted by WarriorVoice View Post
Back in the day, schools offered different degree programs. I remember ESU having the best computer science program in the entire system. You went to West Chester if you wanted to study music. It seems that schools will go back to specializing in certain programs of study... ESU ended their music degree program a few years ago. There were something like 8 students in that major at the time. Expect more moves like that...
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Originally posted by ironmaniup View Post
Cuts are starting to come out, there will be more detail in 2 weeks. The idea is to cut low enrollment programs to the bone. The thing is some low enrollment programs are essential to an accredited university - Physics and Philosophy for instance. The mergers allow alot more programs to be cut, and still have a viable university. I tend to agree that the merger is not a great idea, and expect it is more sort of a thunderdome for these schools. It will be interesting how they will deal with things like endowments. How will it effect donors ? will anyone want to donate to the merged university ?
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Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
Faculty often pass rumors that accreditation requires certain majors or departments. Sometimes it's they can't keep university status. Simply not true.
You can keep essential courses from a department without having a full blown department or a degree program.
Kudos on the Thunderdome reference.
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Originally posted by ironmaniup View Post
Cuts are starting to come out, there will be more detail in 2 weeks. The idea is to cut low enrollment programs to the bone. The thing is some low enrollment programs are essential to an accredited university - Physics and Philosophy for instance. The mergers allow alot more programs to be cut, and still have a viable university. I tend to agree that the merger is not a great idea, and expect it is more sort of a thunderdome for these schools. It will be interesting how they will deal with things like endowments. How will it effect donors ? will anyone want to donate to the merged university ?
You can keep essential courses from a department without having a full blown department or a degree program.
Kudos on the Thunderdome reference.
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Originally posted by Bart View PostEdinboro president must see the writing on the wall.
https://www.post-gazette.com/news/ed...s/202010160167
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Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
Presidents make well under market in PASSHE. Most are in the $250k range. So let's say their total compensation is $400k. These schools aren't going to sell off the president's residence - at Cal its an apartment. Somebody also needs to be in charge on the local level. It's also going to cost more for Dale Pehrsson to cover all that territory from Clarion. I don't see much savings. That's an unusual strain on VPs or Deans or Department Chairs who have to cover those three schools, supervise departments at those schools, etc.
I don't see any advantage to a consolidated name (or much of this at all). Changing the name to WPSU-Clarion or UWP-Clarion doesn't amplify anything in the same way creating PASSHE didn't amplify anything. If the goal is to salvage their individual identities, cutting athletics certainly does more to hurt their identity than. Consolidating athletics could be considered but you're still risking losing more tuition dollars than the program costs to operate including alumni support.
Obviously I'm against this plan. I don't see how it helps any of the six schools. I don't see how it saves the schools. Students don't want to attend a branch campus, otherwise the Penn State outlet stores would be more successful. The program cuts hurt but will create real savings. Forcing the leadership (VPs, Deans, Presidents, Trustees) to get more creative in their strategy would be a great start. More aggressive admissions marketing would help too.
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Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
One of the cost savings that being highlighted is through "shared services." Why have three seporate functions when you can have one that is shared by all three. Starting to hear that about entire programs in these groupings (why should all three campuses offer Political Science degrees (for example)? You can safe $ by eliminating this degree track at all but one campus). Same goes with athletics, why have three redundant (and expensive) and competing football programs when you can focus your resources at one location? If you are looking at these campus groupings as single units, why would you pay for 3 head football coaches (and staffs) and staff, 6 head basketball head coaches (and staffs), etc? When you are shaking the seat cusions for lose change, how can you justify paying for 6 head basketball coaches when you can get by with 2??
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Edinboro president must see the writing on the wall.
https://www.post-gazette.com/news/ed...s/202010160167
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Originally posted by shipfbfan1 View PostReally dissecting this financially even if they kept the athletic teams at each university they'd still save money as there would be 1 University President rather than 3, It would allow maybe the schools to keep their original name under the California and Bloomsburg umbrellas such as California-Clarion, California-Edinboro similar to the State of California University system where they have Cal-Berkley, Cal-Davis, UCLA.
I don't see any advantage to a consolidated name (or much of this at all). Changing the name to WPSU-Clarion or UWP-Clarion doesn't amplify anything in the same way creating PASSHE didn't amplify anything. If the goal is to salvage their individual identities, cutting athletics certainly does more to hurt their identity than. Consolidating athletics could be considered but you're still risking losing more tuition dollars than the program costs to operate including alumni support.
Obviously I'm against this plan. I don't see how it helps any of the six schools. I don't see how it saves the schools. Students don't want to attend a branch campus, otherwise the Penn State outlet stores would be more successful. The program cuts hurt but will create real savings. Forcing the leadership (VPs, Deans, Presidents, Trustees) to get more creative in their strategy would be a great start. More aggressive admissions marketing would help too.
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Really dissecting this financially even if they kept the athletic teams at each university they'd still save money as there would be 1 University President rather than 3, It would allow maybe the schools to keep their original name under the California and Bloomsburg umbrellas such as California-Clarion, California-Edinboro similar to the State of California University system where they have Cal-Berkley, Cal-Davis, UCLA.
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Athletes pay tuition too. You save $200k in men's basketball salaries but you lose 12 students paying on average $22k each. On top of that you lose basketball game revenue which funds scholarships for programs that don't charge admission. Plus, in those winter months, men's basketball guarantees you coverage twice a week on the three news networks in Erie and the newspapers in Erie and Meadville.
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Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post
Believe it or not it's not ALL about the money. Or, there are cuts that could be made that would just be detrimental in the big picture. You could save money by having one name, one logo, one brand. There are reasons that probably is not a good idea.
In terms of maintaining each school's identity, athletics is the most important thing.
As I mentioned in my previous post, independent athletics programs are the norm under these types of arrangements.
Each school keeping their own sports will make all this much more palatable to those involved.
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Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
One of the cost savings that being highlighted is through "shared services." Why have three seporate functions when you can have one that is shared by all three. Starting to hear that about entire programs in these groupings (why should all three campuses offer Political Science degrees (for example)? You can safe $ by eliminating this degree track at all but one campus). Same goes with athletics, why have three redundant (and expensive) and competing football programs when you can focus your resources at one location? If you are looking at these campus groupings as single units, why would you pay for 3 head football coaches (and staffs) and staff, 6 head basketball head coaches (and staffs), etc? When you are shaking the seat cusions for lose change, how can you justify paying for 6 head basketball coaches when you can get by with 2??
In terms of maintaining each school's identity, athletics is the most important thing.
As I mentioned in my previous post, independent athletics programs are the norm under these types of arrangements.
Each school keeping their own sports will make all this much more palatable to those involved.
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Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post
The more I think about it I think athletics will be the last thing to become "integrated." Some sports might get cut but that is the trend at all the schools, whether they are part of the integration or not.
I don't see how having one athletics department for the "system" could work. I think they will all maintain their athletics identity, although Mansfield is a little suspect simply based on its small enrollment.
There are combinations of campuses everywhere that operate as separate entities in sports. For example, 2 PSU campuses (Behrend and Altoona) and 2 Pitt campuses (Bradford and Greensburg) are members of the Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference and compete against each other. Here in El Paso, UTEP just played UT-Austin (mismatch) in football. This is the pattern everywhere. So, I think concerns about sports teams are probably not warranted.
I do think football at LHU is endangered, especially when the impact of the pandemic becomes clearer. Mansfield dropped football and that has allowed them to support an 11-sport program. They couldn't do any of those sports if they still had NCAA football, I don't think.
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