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  • Fightingscot82
    replied
    Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

    Did Georgia follow the "PASSHE Model" were the consolidation didn't result in reducing excess capacity (i.e. Closing colleges) or was it more a "consolidation of services," with name changes?

    The monster in the room that the PASSHE seems to be unwilling to address is that there is, and will be, fewer potential PA students to come close to filling the capacity it has! Bottom line...Too many seats and not enough butts to fill them.
    That solves the budget issues but doesn't solve the enrollment issue because proximity & cost are the top reasons for choosing a PASSHE campus, even one with declining enrollment. If the state closes Mansfield, those students aren't going to just suck it up and start driving the extra hour to Bloomsburg or Lock Haven. The geography of PASSHE isn't logical but its vital. If anything, the system should find ways to direct "residential" students to the campuses with capacity. If Edinboro closes, students from Pittsburgh will go somewhere else. But the students from NWPA only have more expensive options.

    Bottom line, the state has to create ways to make PASSHE more attractive while maintaining its affordability edge. Unless a student has a huge aid package, PASSHE should usually be the most affordable option. I know that's not good marketing but as a society we can't complain about cost & debt while ignoring lower cost options.

    Leave a comment:


  • boatcapt
    replied
    Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
    Article in the highest profile industry publication: "More States Turn to Public-College Mergers, but Easy Fixes May Remain Elusive"

    https://www.chronicle.com/article/mo...id=gen_sign_in
    Did Georgia follow the "PASSHE Model" were the consolidation didn't result in reducing excess capacity (i.e. Closing colleges) or was it more a "consolidation of services," with name changes?

    The monster in the room that the PASSHE seems to be unwilling to address is that there is, and will be, fewer potential PA students to come close to filling the capacity it has! Bottom line...Too many seats and not enough butts to fill them.

    Leave a comment:


  • boatcapt
    replied
    [QUOTE=Bart;n565369]
    It has been said we have too many state owned schools, but there are 14 community colleges in Pa. Some community colleges like Luzerne have 7 branch campuses.
    I think it goes to "profitability" and enrolement. If a CC is breaking even and maintaining/increasing their enrolement, no need to close them down. If they are NOT and their enrolement numbers are declining year after year after year, yea, close them down!

    Leave a comment:


  • Fightingscot82
    replied
    Article in the highest profile industry publication: "More States Turn to Public-College Mergers, but Easy Fixes May Remain Elusive"

    https://www.chronicle.com/article/mo...id=gen_sign_in

    When the University System of Georgia consolidated 18 of its campuses into nine new institutions during the 2010s, it found it about $30 million a year, only 1 percent of its annual operating budget of about $2.3 billion.

    Leave a comment:


  • complaint_hopeful
    replied
    Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

    Edinboro and Mansfield could be converted into community college/vocational education centers.
    In theory, but they'd need to drastically cut costs. Community colleges charge like half of what PASSHE schools do.

    Leave a comment:


  • iupgroundhog
    replied
    Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

    The losses were similar for trade schools.

    In PA we need community college and state subsidized vocational education covering more of the state. Right now it's concentrated in all the major population centers except Erie/NWPA and central PA above I-80 has Penn State DuBois. There's an online community college targeting this area but the fallacy of the thing is that this region has terrible internet.
    Edinboro and Mansfield could be converted into community college/vocational education centers.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bart
    replied
    [QUOTE]
    Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

    The losses were similar for trade schools.

    In PA we need community college and state subsidized vocational education covering more of the state. Right now it's concentrated in all the major population centers except Erie/NWPA and central PA above I-80 has Penn State DuBois. There's an online community college targeting this area but the fallacy of the thing is that this region has terrible internet. [/QUOTE
    It has been said we have too many state owned schools, but there are 14 community colleges in Pa. Some community colleges like Luzerne have 7 branch campuses.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fightingscot82
    replied
    Originally posted by Bart View Post
    There has been talk of the need for more community colleges and vocational training.



    https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireSt...demic-76017643



    The losses were similar for trade schools.

    In PA we need community college and state subsidized vocational education covering more of the state. Right now it's concentrated in all the major population centers except Erie/NWPA and central PA above I-80 has Penn State DuBois. There's an online community college targeting this area but the fallacy of the thing is that this region has terrible internet.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bart
    replied
    There has been talk of the need for more community colleges and vocational training.

    https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireSt...demic-76017643




    Leave a comment:


  • complaint_hopeful
    replied
    Another interesting thing is the Chancellor is putting out a lot of communication regarding how successful the Integration is going. He's doubling and tripling down.

    Heres his latest blog post: chancellorgreenstein.blogspot.com/?m=1

    Leave a comment:


  • IUPNation
    replied
    You all do realize that Harrisburg is going to seriously **** this all up. I mean most of Q's (What you refer to as Republicans) in Harrisburg are the biggest morons on two feet. Does anything think Daryl Metcalfe could propose a plan to fix higher education in PA. He's too busy trying to enact "God's Plan" while paying for whatever poor woman agreed to be his mistress. The rest are too busy going around wagging their wankers and proclaiming they are the Trumpiest one around.

    As long as the Q's control the state house and senate.....higher education in PA will continue to be dysfunctional in operations.

    Leave a comment:


  • IUPNation
    replied
    Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

    He surprisingly seemed like a deer in the headlights in front of the legislature.

    Ironically, this week I had several friends & contacts at western PASSHE schools casting doubt on the integration plan and I summarized on here. This morning I receive an email from Edinboro with a "fact sheet" on integration. Some highlights:
    - fixed costs are expected to rise by 3-4% per year (personnel costs, utilities, etc)
    - two western schools are on track to exhaust financial reserves by the end of the FY
    - Slippery Rock is the most successful western school and only operating at a 1-2% margin
    - integration starts fall 2021 but won't be fully realized until 2026
    - the 25% reduction is in cost to student, not reduction in tuition. I guess this means they'll ramp up dual enrollment & community college agreements

    Some editorial comment:
    - if the integration allows students to take courses from any one of the three campuses (must attend in person if course is taught by "your" faculty), that might disincentivize a student from Erie attending Clarion or Cal and vice versa, which comes with decreased housing & meal revenue
    - I still don't see the major cost savings without CRAZY cuts unseen in the industry and I don't see it as a path forward. Similar to Sears closing half their stores only leading to their eventual demise.
    - It was described to me by a very high ranking Edinboro person (president in their title) SRU wanted the merger with Edinboro to be arranged like a hostile takeover. They wanted Edinboro to be a Slippery Rock campus, which wouldn't have gone over well. Clarion and Cal recognized that their financial situation and degree programs were similar to Edinboro and proposed the partnership. Edinboro and Cal have massive construction debt (Edinboro from housing, Cal from the arena & parking garage). Clarion has little construction debt but they've just run out of cash
    Slimey Pebble...always being the biggest ass hole of the bunch.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fightingscot82
    replied
    Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

    Currently, is there a limit set regarding what portion of a student's courses can be taken online that are offered by schools other than your home school?

    Yes, I would say that disincentive is real.

    P,S. It's questionable as to the fairness of forcing students from the campus offering the course to attend in person while students from other campuses take it online. That policy is destined to fail.
    Pretty sure there's not because its not something too common. In hindsight that should have been a thing - universal credit transfer within PASSHE.

    I think students will want to graduate on time and get the courses they want in their program sequence. Pre-Covid, that was the plan - if your campus doesn't have a course or a seat for you in a course that you need, you can take it online from another PASSHE school if its offered online. I'd be interested how many students knew that and actually did it system-wide. You may recall some upper level classes are only offered periodically. Generally though it comes down to faculty. They have the freedom to deliver the course objectives how they see fit within the parameters of school policy. Most faculty prefer teaching in person and most students prefer taking classes in person. Its one of those things (like taking all night classes generations ago) that sounds like a really good idea when you're scheduling but doesn't work out as wanted.

    Leave a comment:


  • iupgroundhog
    replied
    Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

    He surprisingly seemed like a deer in the headlights in front of the legislature.

    Ironically, this week I had several friends & contacts at western PASSHE schools casting doubt on the integration plan and I summarized on here. This morning I receive an email from Edinboro with a "fact sheet" on integration. Some highlights:
    - fixed costs are expected to rise by 3-4% per year (personnel costs, utilities, etc)
    - two western schools are on track to exhaust financial reserves by the end of the FY
    - Slippery Rock is the most successful western school and only operating at a 1-2% margin
    - integration starts fall 2021 but won't be fully realized until 2026
    - the 25% reduction is in cost to student, not reduction in tuition. I guess this means they'll ramp up dual enrollment & community college agreements

    Some editorial comment:
    - if the integration allows students to take courses from any one of the three campuses (must attend in person if course is taught by "your" faculty), that might disincentivize a student from Erie attending Clarion or Cal and vice versa, which comes with decreased housing & meal revenue
    - I still don't see the major cost savings without CRAZY cuts unseen in the industry and I don't see it as a path forward. Similar to Sears closing half their stores only leading to their eventual demise.
    - It was described to me by a very high ranking Edinboro person (president in their title) SRU wanted the merger with Edinboro to be arranged like a hostile takeover. They wanted Edinboro to be a Slippery Rock campus, which wouldn't have gone over well. Clarion and Cal recognized that their financial situation and degree programs were similar to Edinboro and proposed the partnership. Edinboro and Cal have massive construction debt (Edinboro from housing, Cal from the arena & parking garage). Clarion has little construction debt but they've just run out of cash
    Currently, is there a limit set regarding what portion of a student's courses can be taken online that are offered by schools other than your home school?

    Yes, I would say that disincentive is real.

    P,S. It's questionable as to the fairness of forcing students from the campus offering the course to attend in person while students from other campuses take it online. That policy is destined to fail.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fightingscot82
    replied
    Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

    It doesn't matter how smart the people are who are working on this. As far as the Chancellor he may be confronting his Waterloo.

    Actually, as I opined a long time ago, the politics and territorialism may be too much.

    So far, Greenstein has yielded to the opposition rather than taking charge. Frankly, there was no need to integrate Bloomsburg in with Lock Haven and Mansfield. I believe that was a knee-jerk reaction to Slippery Rock effectively removing themselves from the original plan. Adding Bloom in had to be done to meet the financial goals after SRU blew off his plan. So, while I have immense respect for Greenstein and what he's accomplished over his career I don't think he's providing the necessary leadership to make this work.

    The western schools (and that includes IUP) are the problem and decisive action is required. I don't see Greenstein taking that decisive action.
    He surprisingly seemed like a deer in the headlights in front of the legislature.

    Ironically, this week I had several friends & contacts at western PASSHE schools casting doubt on the integration plan and I summarized on here. This morning I receive an email from Edinboro with a "fact sheet" on integration. Some highlights:
    - fixed costs are expected to rise by 3-4% per year (personnel costs, utilities, etc)
    - two western schools are on track to exhaust financial reserves by the end of the FY
    - Slippery Rock is the most successful western school and only operating at a 1-2% margin
    - integration starts fall 2021 but won't be fully realized until 2026
    - the 25% reduction is in cost to student, not reduction in tuition. I guess this means they'll ramp up dual enrollment & community college agreements

    Some editorial comment:
    - if the integration allows students to take courses from any one of the three campuses (must attend in person if course is taught by "your" faculty), that might disincentivize a student from Erie attending Clarion or Cal and vice versa, which comes with decreased housing & meal revenue
    - I still don't see the major cost savings without CRAZY cuts unseen in the industry and I don't see it as a path forward. Similar to Sears closing half their stores only leading to their eventual demise.
    - It was described to me by a very high ranking Edinboro person (president in their title) SRU wanted the merger with Edinboro to be arranged like a hostile takeover. They wanted Edinboro to be a Slippery Rock campus, which wouldn't have gone over well. Clarion and Cal recognized that their financial situation and degree programs were similar to Edinboro and proposed the partnership. Edinboro and Cal have massive construction debt (Edinboro from housing, Cal from the arena & parking garage). Clarion has little construction debt but they've just run out of cash

    Leave a comment:

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