Originally posted by boatcapt
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Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post
I guess they share vo-tech roots but from the beginning, Penn College was a technical school for emerging industrial needs e.g. robotics. Stevens is your old fashioned traditional trade school, albeit a very good one.
These days, Penn College has grown into just about everything, including liberal arts. If you set their respective curriculums sid-by-side there is no similarity.
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Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
Yes, which to me is the value proposition with investing in PASSHE in exchange for holding the line on cost to students. If there are fewer Pennsylvanians, we need college educated citizens who theoretically will make more money than the non-college educated to maximize potential tax revenue. That sounds vain and crass but its reality. We can't keep creating new taxes or increasing the ones we have. As an older state that once was swimming in cash, we have a lot of aging infrastructure and long-supported programs that only cost more and more to operate.
Penn College is kinda a 4-year version of Thaddeus Stevens. I'm somewhat familiar with Penn College - they definitely don't think of themselves as a Penn State campus.
These days, Penn College has grown into just about everything, including liberal arts. If you set their respective curriculums sid-by-side there is no similarity.
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Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post
One thing that is true in the article is that at the time when PSU created the 4 yr. Commonwealth campuses the reason they did it was that they were overflowing at the main campus. PSU was getting so many apps from qualified students and the demand was so high that it did make sense at the time. That level of demand wasn't maintained over the long haul and I would say the 4yr. branches did not work out as intended.
The main problem in PA is declining population. Now we are talking about the drop in "college age population" but in 20 years that translates into a drop in wage earners in the prime of their earnings lifecycle and more fiscal pain for the state. I really hate to say it but the future does not look good for PA, especially outside of the 5 county Phila. region and Allegheny County.
The map also does not include Penn College but I guess that is not a branch. Its status is more like the law school and medical school.
Penn College is kinda a 4-year version of Thaddeus Stevens. I'm somewhat familiar with Penn College - they definitely don't think of themselves as a Penn State campus.
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Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
There's some BS in that article. First, there's crazy overlap between Penn State campuses and PASSHE academic programs. Few of the Penn State campuses are specialized anymore and almost none are specialized to the local economy. With the exception of possibly Altoona, Erie, and Harrisburg none are economic drivers. Most Pennsylvanians assume these campuses are "transfer centers" when in reality few students transfer up to the main campus. System-wide its about 30% but at Altoona its closer to 60%. Proximity to State College is a major driver of their enrollment. They were the original campus to sell the "Penn State outlet store" experience.
This was a Philly article so it was SEPA focused. The author could also talk about the money Pitt and the state have poured into Pitt Bradford.
I've mentioned before that our campuses on average are larger and since they're independent are more closely tied to the local economy. PASSHE are almost all rural locations but Penn State and Pitt campuses are mostly in decaying former industrial towns.
I'd love to see the state request from Pitt and Penn State a financial breakdown for each campus. We're largely going after the same students and their campuses have experienced similar enrollment losses.
The main problem in PA is declining population. Now we are talking about the drop in "college age population" but in 20 years that translates into a drop in wage earners in the prime of their earnings lifecycle and more fiscal pain for the state. I really hate to say it but the future does not look good for PA, especially outside of the 5 county Phila. region and Allegheny County.
The map also does not include Penn College but I guess that is not a branch. Its status is more like the law school and medical school.
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Originally posted by Bart View Post
This was a Philly article so it was SEPA focused. The author could also talk about the money Pitt and the state have poured into Pitt Bradford.
I've mentioned before that our campuses on average are larger and since they're independent are more closely tied to the local economy. PASSHE are almost all rural locations but Penn State and Pitt campuses are mostly in decaying former industrial towns.
I'd love to see the state request from Pitt and Penn State a financial breakdown for each campus. We're largely going after the same students and their campuses have experienced similar enrollment losses.
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Originally posted by Bart View Post"In all, student housing projects across the state owned universities added about a $1.6 billion dollars in debt"
https://triblive.com/local/regional/...-universities/
Hopefully the state doesn't allow anything like this to happen again - especially as some of the earlier adopters of the "auxiliary affiliate as borrower" like Cal and Clarion have their complexes approaching end life.
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Originally posted by Bart View Post
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"In all, student housing projects across the state owned universities added about a $1.6 billion dollars in debt"
https://triblive.com/local/regional/...-universities/
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Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
I get what you're saying. Sure. I'd like to see some championships. For the most part, Joe Public doesn't respect a DII championship any more than a DIII championship.
But I don't see how dropping to DIII saves money given the current setup. A lot of personnel costs are still dictated across the board by a union CBA regardless of classification. As I've pointed out countless times, PSAC West travel is pretty cheap & easy - changing to a new conference might actually increase travel costs. Much like the rest of this integration, the actual cost savings of moving down a classification may not be enough to justify the move.
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Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
It was a question to see if people are more concerned with the level of their athletic teams or with their success.
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Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
It was a question to see if people are more concerned with the level of their athletic teams or with their success.
But I don't see how dropping to DIII saves money given the current setup. A lot of personnel costs are still dictated across the board by a union CBA regardless of classification. As I've pointed out countless times, PSAC West travel is pretty cheap & easy - changing to a new conference might actually increase travel costs. Much like the rest of this integration, the actual cost savings of moving down a classification may not be enough to justify the move.
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Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post
I don't see how the D3 question is relevant. If you split a triad by division you will still have 2 of them in the same division. I am not sure what that would solve.
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Originally posted by boatcapt View PostHere's a question...If you were an alumni of one of the six schools and you were given a choice to be a middle of the pack team in your DII conference and non-entity for NC's OR be a consistent conference winner and national contender every year as a D3, which would you choose?
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