PASSHE Institutions Merging

[WarriorVoice]

The state doesn't own Penn State, Pitt, Temple, Lincoln, or any of the community colleges. It just gives them an annual allowance. They can't force anything. They can't even force them to fall under the open records law. The state can force PASSHE to do anything because they're all owned by the state. That's the end of the story.

The state owns a 15th college, Thaddeus Stevens, but they're not under the PASSHE umbrella for some reason. It's all stupid. There should be a state board that sets policy & oversight & coordination for everything state funded in higher ed. But this is Pennsylvania.

Where did I write that Penn State is OWNED by the State of PA?! I listed them as "State-related". Read the post correctly...

[Fightingscot82]

My understanding is that in exchange for the state funding, PSU, Pitt, Temple & Lincoln offer PA students an in-state tuition rate...In the case of PSU, that takes the tuition from $36,000 to $18,500 for PA students. Also, the governor appoints members of the Board of Trustees at each of these schools. In the case of PSU, the governor directly appoints six of the 38 member Board of Trustees and the board also includes the state Secretary of Education, Secretary of Agreculture and Secretary of Conservation & Natural Resources as voting members. That's a pretty signifigant voting block directly and in-directly appointed by the Governor.

Yes but alumni can also elect trustees. PASSHE can't. All school trustees and system board members are appointed by the governor or the state legislature and they have to be a PA resident. So we have absolutely no direct say in how our universities are run. I served two terms as president of my school's alumni association and I can tell you that any dissent with school leadership isn't tolerated.

[boatcapt]

The state doesn't own Penn State, Pitt, Temple, Lincoln, or any of the community colleges. It just gives them an annual allowance. They can't force anything. They can't even force them to fall under the open records law. The state can force PASSHE to do anything because they're all owned by the state. That's the end of the story.

The state owns a 15th college, Thaddeus Stevens, but they're not under the PASSHE umbrella for some reason. It's all stupid. There should be a state board that sets policy & oversight & coordination for everything state funded in higher ed. But this is Pennsylvania.

My understanding is that in exchange for the state funding, PSU, Pitt, Temple & Lincoln offer PA students an in-state tuition rate...In the case of PSU, that takes the tuition from $36,000 to $18,500 for PA students. Also, the governor appoints members of the Board of Trustees at each of these schools. In the case of PSU, the governor directly appoints six of the 38 member Board of Trustees and the board also includes the state Secretary of Education, Secretary of Agreculture and Secretary of Conservation & Natural Resources as voting members. That's a pretty signifigant voting block directly and in-directly appointed by the Governor.

[Fightingscot82]

As it stands, Pennsylvania has 3 different higher education systems, and that isn't sustainable. The Community College system is in trouble, and statewide consolidation might be the only solution. Then you have the State-related schools, Penn State, Pitt, Temple and Lincoln. Then there's the PASSHE. 14 schools, most if not all in the red, and what is seen as a desperate plan by some will be voted on this week.

The 3 groups should all be consolidated under one system, but is there leadership and vision to get it done?! Time will tell.

The state doesn't own Penn State, Pitt, Temple, Lincoln, or any of the community colleges. It just gives them an annual allowance. They can't force anything. They can't even force them to fall under the open records law. The state can force PASSHE to do anything because they're all owned by the state. That's the end of the story.

The state owns a 15th college, Thaddeus Stevens, but they're not under the PASSHE umbrella for some reason. It's all stupid. There should be a state board that sets policy & oversight & coordination for everything state funded in higher ed. But this is Pennsylvania.

[WarriorVoice]

As it stands, Pennsylvania has 3 different higher education systems, and that isn't sustainable. The Community College system is in trouble, and statewide consolidation might be the only solution. Then you have the State-related schools, Penn State, Pitt, Temple and Lincoln. Then there's the PASSHE. 14 schools, most if not all in the red, and what is seen as a desperate plan by some will be voted on this week.

The 3 groups should all be consolidated under one system, but is there leadership and vision to get it done?! Time will tell.

[boatcapt]

True...But it would be less expensive and if the NCAA says "no," it might be the only option beyond closing down intercolegiate athletics at four of that campuses.

[iupgroundhog]

Looking at the big picture - once they get that up and running - they'll need to spend some decent money on marketing but they should be able to undersell a lot of the for-profit schools. Their big competition will be Arizona State and Purdue who went out and bought big online schools and have national name recognition.

Yeah but ASU, Purdue, Penn State are big name schools. This won't carry a lot of prestige. So, you can market all you want. I think it will fizzle.

[Fightingscot82]

I think this was the original plan. Share faculty and use Distance Ed/Remote Learning and offer programs at other campuses that those schools couldn't afford to do. Then, hope that enrollment increases because you offer that on different sites. I mean, this basically all centers around that and cost savings from that.

Looking at the big picture - once they get that up and running - they'll need to spend some decent money on marketing but they should be able to undersell a lot of the for-profit schools. Their big competition will be Arizona State and Purdue who went out and bought big online schools and have national name recognition.

[complaint_hopeful]

Here are the PASSHE student survey results:

PowerPoint Presentation (passhe.edu)

These seem to indicate that students would be open to what's being pitched in the Integration...and are ok with online classes at some level.

[complaint_hopeful]

I agree - traditional student enrollment will plummet. Its a Catch 22 situation. The plan itself sucks and will cause a decline - but the drama around it makes it worse because it draws attention to the problem (and the problematic solution).

I feel like the approval of this plan by the BOG should have been a Step 1. Then, Step 2 you have detailed design and implementation meetings and figure out all the specifics of how it works.

Some of this has to be live this winter to support new students registering. So it gets approved next week, and there's a big rush to get it going.

[complaint_hopeful]

Basically sharing faculty to force a fully online degree option with local market familiarity in Southwest, Central, and Northwest PA. Maybe that's the real plan all along.

I agree - traditional student enrollment will plummet. Its a Catch 22 situation. The plan itself sucks and will cause a decline - but the drama around it makes it worse because it draws attention to the problem (and the problematic solution).

I think this was the original plan. Share faculty and use Distance Ed/Remote Learning and offer programs at other campuses that those schools couldn't afford to do. Then, hope that enrollment increases because you offer that on different sites. I mean, this basically all centers around that and cost savings from that.

[complaint_hopeful]

State System of Higher Education final vote on merging those campuses is Wednesday

[Fightingscot82]

The West is going to have an online 'campus'. So a 4th campus in a sense.

It's kind of unclear how this will work, but there is a 1 liner about a Robust Revenue Sharing Model needing created...in that they could take online students from other schools especially if this gets pushed.

But, initially, I think enrollment will plummet at this Triad. Maybe as soon as fall. Time will tell. In a couple months we should see.

Basically sharing faculty to force a fully online degree option with local market familiarity in Southwest, Central, and Northwest PA. Maybe that's the real plan all along.

I agree - traditional student enrollment will plummet. Its a Catch 22 situation. The plan itself sucks and will cause a decline - but the drama around it makes it worse because it draws attention to the problem (and the problematic solution).

[complaint_hopeful]

Kids surprisingly don't mind taking online classes while living on campus, at least that was my experience at one university, and is backed by the PASSHE student survey. Its very similar to when a student thinks they're smart and takes only once a week night classes - it sounds really good at first but they end up full of regret. Most 18-22 year old students want a traditional experience with dorms, clubs, activities, etc. The ones that commute do so reluctantly due to cost/proximity. The future is adult students (entirely new or those who never finished somewhere else) and they want online. Something I thought was previously discussed was a system-wide campus delivering online bachelors degrees. The majority of the online-only market is working adults, especially those with military funding.

The NCAA discussed the integration question but a vote won't come until September. That probably buys a year especially if they vote no. The thing I can see the NCAA disliking is an ability for a player to freely "reassociate" from one campus to another - how easy is it for a disgruntled Edinboro football player to switch to the Cal team? If they're the same school, no transfer involved. Its only slightly different from a football player quitting to play basketball. I'd be interested in seeing the theoretical net tuition revenue for athletics at each campus and how that compares to total revenue. I believe at Edinboro it was a couple million a year. That's not easily replaced.

The West is going to have an online 'campus'. So a 4th campus in a sense.

It's kind of unclear how this will work, but there is a 1 liner about a Robust Revenue Sharing Model needing created...in that they could take online students from other schools especially if this gets pushed.

But, initially, I think enrollment will plummet at this Triad. Maybe as soon as fall. Time will tell. In a couple months we should see.

[Fightingscot82]

Kids surprisingly don't mind taking online classes while living on campus, at least that was my experience at one university, and is backed by the PASSHE student survey. Its very similar to when a student thinks they're smart and takes only once a week night classes - it sounds really good at first but they end up full of regret. Most 18-22 year old students want a traditional experience with dorms, clubs, activities, etc. The ones that commute do so reluctantly due to cost/proximity. The future is adult students (entirely new or those who never finished somewhere else) and they want online. Something I thought was previously discussed was a system-wide campus delivering online bachelors degrees. The majority of the online-only market is working adults, especially those with military funding.

The NCAA discussed the integration question but a vote won't come until September. That probably buys a year especially if they vote no. The thing I can see the NCAA disliking is an ability for a player to freely "reassociate" from one campus to another - how easy is it for a disgruntled Edinboro football player to switch to the Cal team? If they're the same school, no transfer involved. Its only slightly different from a football player quitting to play basketball. I'd be interested in seeing the theoretical net tuition revenue for athletics at each campus and how that compares to total revenue. I believe at Edinboro it was a couple million a year. That's not easily replaced.