PASSHE Institutions Merging

[Bart]

[QUOTE]

The losses were similar for trade schools.

In PA we need community college and state subsidized vocational education covering more of the state. Right now it's concentrated in all the major population centers except Erie/NWPA and central PA above I-80 has Penn State DuBois. There's an online community college targeting this area but the fallacy of the thing is that this region has terrible internet. [/QUOTE

It has been said we have too many state owned schools, but there are 14 community colleges in Pa. Some community colleges like Luzerne have 7 branch campuses.

[Fightingscot82]

There has been talk of the need for more community colleges and vocational training.



https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireSt...demic-76017643

The losses were similar for trade schools.

In PA we need community college and state subsidized vocational education covering more of the state. Right now it's concentrated in all the major population centers except Erie/NWPA and central PA above I-80 has Penn State DuBois. There's an online community college targeting this area but the fallacy of the thing is that this region has terrible internet.

[Bart]

There has been talk of the need for more community colleges and vocational training.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireSt...demic-76017643

[complaint_hopeful]

Another interesting thing is the Chancellor is putting out a lot of communication regarding how successful the Integration is going. He's doubling and tripling down.

Heres his latest blog post: chancellorgreenstein.blogspot.com/?m=1

[IUPNation]

You all do realize that Harrisburg is going to seriously **** this all up. I mean most of Q's (What you refer to as Republicans) in Harrisburg are the biggest morons on two feet. Does anything think Daryl Metcalfe could propose a plan to fix higher education in PA. He's too busy trying to enact "God's Plan" while paying for whatever poor woman agreed to be his mistress. The rest are too busy going around wagging their wankers and proclaiming they are the Trumpiest one around.

As long as the Q's control the state house and senate.....higher education in PA will continue to be dysfunctional in operations.

[IUPNation]

He surprisingly seemed like a deer in the headlights in front of the legislature.

Ironically, this week I had several friends & contacts at western PASSHE schools casting doubt on the integration plan and I summarized on here. This morning I receive an email from Edinboro with a "fact sheet" on integration. Some highlights:
- fixed costs are expected to rise by 3-4% per year (personnel costs, utilities, etc)
- two western schools are on track to exhaust financial reserves by the end of the FY
- Slippery Rock is the most successful western school and only operating at a 1-2% margin
- integration starts fall 2021 but won't be fully realized until 2026
- the 25% reduction is in cost to student, not reduction in tuition. I guess this means they'll ramp up dual enrollment & community college agreements

Some editorial comment:
- if the integration allows students to take courses from any one of the three campuses (must attend in person if course is taught by "your" faculty), that might disincentivize a student from Erie attending Clarion or Cal and vice versa, which comes with decreased housing & meal revenue
- I still don't see the major cost savings without CRAZY cuts unseen in the industry and I don't see it as a path forward. Similar to Sears closing half their stores only leading to their eventual demise.
- It was described to me by a very high ranking Edinboro person (president in their title) SRU wanted the merger with Edinboro to be arranged like a hostile takeover. They wanted Edinboro to be a Slippery Rock campus, which wouldn't have gone over well. Clarion and Cal recognized that their financial situation and degree programs were similar to Edinboro and proposed the partnership. Edinboro and Cal have massive construction debt (Edinboro from housing, Cal from the arena & parking garage). Clarion has little construction debt but they've just run out of cash

Slimey Pebble...always being the biggest ass hole of the bunch.

[Fightingscot82]

Currently, is there a limit set regarding what portion of a student's courses can be taken online that are offered by schools other than your home school?

Yes, I would say that disincentive is real.

P,S. It's questionable as to the fairness of forcing students from the campus offering the course to attend in person while students from other campuses take it online. That policy is destined to fail.

Pretty sure there's not because its not something too common. In hindsight that should have been a thing - universal credit transfer within PASSHE.

I think students will want to graduate on time and get the courses they want in their program sequence. Pre-Covid, that was the plan - if your campus doesn't have a course or a seat for you in a course that you need, you can take it online from another PASSHE school if its offered online. I'd be interested how many students knew that and actually did it system-wide. You may recall some upper level classes are only offered periodically. Generally though it comes down to faculty. They have the freedom to deliver the course objectives how they see fit within the parameters of school policy. Most faculty prefer teaching in person and most students prefer taking classes in person. Its one of those things (like taking all night classes generations ago) that sounds like a really good idea when you're scheduling but doesn't work out as wanted.

[iupgroundhog]

He surprisingly seemed like a deer in the headlights in front of the legislature.

Ironically, this week I had several friends & contacts at western PASSHE schools casting doubt on the integration plan and I summarized on here. This morning I receive an email from Edinboro with a "fact sheet" on integration. Some highlights:
- fixed costs are expected to rise by 3-4% per year (personnel costs, utilities, etc)
- two western schools are on track to exhaust financial reserves by the end of the FY
- Slippery Rock is the most successful western school and only operating at a 1-2% margin
- integration starts fall 2021 but won't be fully realized until 2026
- the 25% reduction is in cost to student, not reduction in tuition. I guess this means they'll ramp up dual enrollment & community college agreements

Some editorial comment:
- if the integration allows students to take courses from any one of the three campuses (must attend in person if course is taught by "your" faculty), that might disincentivize a student from Erie attending Clarion or Cal and vice versa, which comes with decreased housing & meal revenue
- I still don't see the major cost savings without CRAZY cuts unseen in the industry and I don't see it as a path forward. Similar to Sears closing half their stores only leading to their eventual demise.
- It was described to me by a very high ranking Edinboro person (president in their title) SRU wanted the merger with Edinboro to be arranged like a hostile takeover. They wanted Edinboro to be a Slippery Rock campus, which wouldn't have gone over well. Clarion and Cal recognized that their financial situation and degree programs were similar to Edinboro and proposed the partnership. Edinboro and Cal have massive construction debt (Edinboro from housing, Cal from the arena & parking garage). Clarion has little construction debt but they've just run out of cash

Currently, is there a limit set regarding what portion of a student's courses can be taken online that are offered by schools other than your home school?

Yes, I would say that disincentive is real.

P,S. It's questionable as to the fairness of forcing students from the campus offering the course to attend in person while students from other campuses take it online. That policy is destined to fail.

[Fightingscot82]

It doesn't matter how smart the people are who are working on this. As far as the Chancellor he may be confronting his Waterloo.

Actually, as I opined a long time ago, the politics and territorialism may be too much.

So far, Greenstein has yielded to the opposition rather than taking charge. Frankly, there was no need to integrate Bloomsburg in with Lock Haven and Mansfield. I believe that was a knee-jerk reaction to Slippery Rock effectively removing themselves from the original plan. Adding Bloom in had to be done to meet the financial goals after SRU blew off his plan. So, while I have immense respect for Greenstein and what he's accomplished over his career I don't think he's providing the necessary leadership to make this work.

The western schools (and that includes IUP) are the problem and decisive action is required. I don't see Greenstein taking that decisive action.

He surprisingly seemed like a deer in the headlights in front of the legislature.

Ironically, this week I had several friends & contacts at western PASSHE schools casting doubt on the integration plan and I summarized on here. This morning I receive an email from Edinboro with a "fact sheet" on integration. Some highlights:
- fixed costs are expected to rise by 3-4% per year (personnel costs, utilities, etc)
- two western schools are on track to exhaust financial reserves by the end of the FY
- Slippery Rock is the most successful western school and only operating at a 1-2% margin
- integration starts fall 2021 but won't be fully realized until 2026
- the 25% reduction is in cost to student, not reduction in tuition. I guess this means they'll ramp up dual enrollment & community college agreements

Some editorial comment:
- if the integration allows students to take courses from any one of the three campuses (must attend in person if course is taught by "your" faculty), that might disincentivize a student from Erie attending Clarion or Cal and vice versa, which comes with decreased housing & meal revenue
- I still don't see the major cost savings without CRAZY cuts unseen in the industry and I don't see it as a path forward. Similar to Sears closing half their stores only leading to their eventual demise.
- It was described to me by a very high ranking Edinboro person (president in their title) SRU wanted the merger with Edinboro to be arranged like a hostile takeover. They wanted Edinboro to be a Slippery Rock campus, which wouldn't have gone over well. Clarion and Cal recognized that their financial situation and degree programs were similar to Edinboro and proposed the partnership. Edinboro and Cal have massive construction debt (Edinboro from housing, Cal from the arena & parking garage). Clarion has little construction debt but they've just run out of cash

[iupgroundhog]

That said, I only see part of what's happening and really smart people are working on this. The Chancellor is great too and sometimes true visionaries are the only one to see their vision initially. They may be holding some of the plan back too. Kind of not revealing all the cards. So I'm trying to view it optimistically.

It doesn't matter how smart the people are who are working on this. As far as the Chancellor he may be confronting his Waterloo.

Actually, as I opined a long time ago, the politics and territorialism may be too much.

So far, Greenstein has yielded to the opposition rather than taking charge. Frankly, there was no need to integrate Bloomsburg in with Lock Haven and Mansfield. I believe that was a knee-jerk reaction to Slippery Rock effectively removing themselves from the original plan. Adding Bloom in had to be done to meet the financial goals after SRU blew off his plan. So, while I have immense respect for Greenstein and what he's accomplished over his career I don't think he's providing the necessary leadership to make this work.

The western schools (and that includes IUP) are the problem and decisive action is required. I don't see Greenstein taking that decisive action.

[boatcapt]

Let me guess...The first way out of this problem that each of these groups will propose is more money from Harrisburg...and the first thing they will do with that money is to stop the layoffs of faculty and staff!!!

[complaint_hopeful]

Nothing more than what's been already made public. I can confirm that there are doubts all around.

I heard a similar rumor about the doubt. I have no clue if it's true or if it was planted by someone that wants it to fail.

Personally, I'm concerned about the tight time frame, the really high costs, and I don't know that the redesign is going far enough towards reimagining higher Ed.

That said, I only see part of what's happening and really smart people are working on this. The Chancellor is great too and sometimes true visionaries are the only one to see their vision initially. They may be holding some of the plan back too. Kind of not revealing all the cards. So I'm trying to view it optimistically.

[Fightingscot82]

Yep. And this Integration has a VERY TIGHT timeframe. Like there are some major projects that need to happen to hit the timeframe and they are condensed so this will need worked through quick.

Do you know more details about the specifics?

Nothing more than what's been already made public. I can confirm that there are doubts all around.

[complaint_hopeful]

Save Our State Schools (@OurStateSchools) / Twitter

Home | Mysite 1 (saveourstateschools.org)

PApublics (@PApublics) / Twitter

[complaint_hopeful]

APSCUF has successfully led a pause of the "academic alignment" of the Cal-Clarion-Edinboro integration. Word spreading this week that PASSHE legal advised all work to stop while the system and the union work out details.

There have also been two pro-PASSHE lobbying groups emerging online. One, Save Our State Schools, is very polished and I assume led or at least backed by the faculty union. The second, is little more than a Twitter account "PA Publics" and seems less polished and most likely some non-higher ed folks like alumni or community members opposing the integrations.

Yep. And this Integration has a VERY TIGHT timeframe. Like there are some major projects that need to happen to hit the timeframe and they are condensed so this will need worked through quick.

Do you know more details about the specifics?