PASSHE Institutions Merging

[complaint_hopeful]

Still not convinced Uncle Sam is going to flush any of these schools down the toilet.

Although it reminds me of owning a pond with way too many Bass in it and not enough food for them. None of them grow big. They all become stagnant and stunted. The only way to fix it is to start eliminating the smaller Bass.

The PASSHE is a pond with way too many GD fish in it.

Right! And all of the state subsidy over the years encourage inefficiency. Schools likely grew above where they should have. And they were scaled to the prosperous times, which is why they want to reduce ratios to 2010 numbers.

But, if you look at these schools...I think you'll see a lot of inefficiency. They can cut costs all they want, but many of the schools lack even fundamental documented business processes. If you evaluated them on a business process maturity model, they'd be very low. This translates to a lesser product. ie Is it easy for a potential student to become a student? I'm fairly sure if you look at some that their processes hold them back.

And that same lack of process needs addressed in this shared services model that they're going to. To become a service provider, that stuff needs defined all the more.

[complaint_hopeful]

I don't think Greenstein is winning any PR battles right now.

At what point does all this uncertainty with PASSHE and news of schools being insolvent and financially unstable poison the well and make students go to other schools?

To a large extent, the major news stations don't seem to be picking this up. It seems mainly the small local papers and Universities run the stories on this stuff. The Faculty Union is launching a whole campaign about how retrenchment will mean lower quality for students. And they may be right. But, is all this bad press going to just mean less students?

APSCUF discusses retrenchment at town hall -
APSCUF President explains faculty layoffs happening at PASSHE universities
http://www.theonlinerocket.com/news/...-at-town-hall/

And of course students and faculty will not want to see faculty lose their jobs. But, the finances are so bad that schools may go out of business. This isn't a situation where doing nothing makes it better. Heck, even making these changes might not fix it. It might be too late. We may just need less schools.

[complaint_hopeful]

I find that article to be confusing. It's the first I've heard of the schools being referred to as "insolvent." Are they insolvent? That means they can't meet their general financial obligations or debt obligations.

I think if you add to that Can't meet their financial obligations without dipping into reserves. I think that's their definition of insolvent. ie Can't atleast break even. Schools are depleting reserves which will eventually run out. Then, they will be unable to meet their financial obligations.

[Fightingscot82]

The system is on the verge of collapse, so the answer is to bailout the schools that are failing. It seems they should be investing in the winning schools, and not propping up those that are failing. Why would it cost $200 million to close or mothball a school?

Right now, the only "winning schools" are Slippery Rock and West Chester.

[ironmaniup]

The system is on the verge of collapse, so the answer is to bailout the schools that are failing. It seems they should be investing in the winning schools, and not propping up those that are failing. Why would it cost $200 million to close or mothball a school?

I suppose there would be significant legal and legislative challenges to closing a school like Mansfield. I'm not sure you could do it without the legislator's approval. Then there is the costs of maintaining the grounds, with 0 income - it wouldn't be like an old shuttered factory. Its a good question, and the real answer is probably that no one has ever really thought about what closing a university would look like. No one wants the image of old boarded up university buildings - there has to be something to replace it,

[Bart]

Still not convinced Uncle Sam is going to flush any of these schools down the toilet.

Although it reminds me of owning a pond with way too many Bass in it and not enough food for them. None of them grow big. They all become stagnant and stunted. The only way to fix it is to start eliminating the smaller Bass.

The PASSHE is a pond with way too many GD fish in it.

The system is on the verge of collapse, so the answer is to bailout the schools that are failing. It seems they should be investing in the winning schools, and not propping up those that are failing. Why would it cost $200 million to close or mothball a school?

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Still not convinced Uncle Sam is going to flush any of these schools down the toilet.

Although it reminds me of owning a pond with way too many Bass in it and not enough food for them. None of them grow big. They all become stagnant and stunted. The only way to fix it is to start eliminating the smaller Bass.

The PASSHE is a pond with way too many GD fish in it.

[iupgroundhog]

https://www.indianagazette.com/news/...716f19b0b.html

I don't think Greenstein is winning any PR battles right now.

[Bart]

I find that article to be confusing. It's the first I've heard of the schools being referred to as "insolvent." Are they insolvent? That means they can't meet their general financial obligations or debt obligations.

https://www.indianagazette.com/news/...716f19b0b.html

[iupgroundhog]

"If the pattern does not change, PASSHE could see Lock Haven and Shippensburg Universities become insolvent and Bloomsburg, East Stroudsburg and Millersville Universities become financially unstable."

http://www.theonlinerocket.com/news/...-goes-virtual/

I find that article to be confusing. It's the first I've heard of the schools being referred to as "insolvent." Are they insolvent? That means they can't meet their general financial obligations or debt obligations.

[Bart]

"If the pattern does not change, PASSHE could see Lock Haven and Shippensburg Universities become insolvent and Bloomsburg, East Stroudsburg and Millersville Universities become financially unstable."

http://www.theonlinerocket.com/news/...-goes-virtual/

[complaint_hopeful]

Some of these notices went out before the retirement incentive went into effect so I wonder if these numbers will be reduced. Unfortunately, full-time faculty positions don't have much turnover so its been hard to gradually reduce the faculty count as enrollment dwindled.

Conversely, I guess Edinboro could lay off an entire department creating immediate savings and have those courses taught remotely by the department at Clarion or California. I don't think that's a good way to learn, though.

The interesting thing will be how they split up the revenue in that scenario.

Like say Edinboro gets rid of an entire English Depth and Cal or Clarion teach those classes. How much revenue would go back to Edinboro to essentially do nothing?

Of course, if these schools all become 1 school I guess that won't matter.

[ironmaniup]

Some of these notices went out before the retirement incentive went into effect so I wonder if these numbers will be reduced. Unfortunately, full-time faculty positions don't have much turnover so its been hard to gradually reduce the faculty count as enrollment dwindled.

Conversely, I guess Edinboro could lay off an entire department creating immediate savings and have those courses taught remotely by the department at Clarion or California. I don't think that's a good way to learn, though.

They might be reduced a bit, and they can withdraw the retrenchment, depending on future retirements of faculty by this summer, or an unexpected uptick in enrollment. Alot will depend on how the presidents decide to do the cuts, if they target departments or programs, then there is nothing anyone can do, if they are just "right sizing" departments, retirements might impact it, since no reason to layoff someone only to replace them in 2 years. I expect some Union action as well. If they don't their done - just imagine the dues they are losing. so there may be a little give in the numbers, for the sake of appearances.

[Fightingscot82]

The full-time faculty would be nuts to leave. Way too sweet of a gig. IUP has some well in to their late 70s.

Yes you're damn right. They also rarely jump from university to university unless their position is cut or they take an administrative position. Tenure and rank don't always follow you - plus PASSHE pays in the 90th percentile for professor salaries.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Some of these notices went out before the retirement incentive went into effect so I wonder if these numbers will be reduced. Unfortunately, full-time faculty positions don't have much turnover so its been hard to gradually reduce the faculty count as enrollment dwindled.

Conversely, I guess Edinboro could lay off an entire department creating immediate savings and have those courses taught remotely by the department at Clarion or California. I don't think that's a good way to learn, though.

The full-time faculty would be nuts to leave. Way too sweet of a gig. IUP has some well in to their late 70s.